Why can there be adult coaches on the drive team?

[adlasa]

I am the student coach for our drive team and have always wondered why adults are also allowed to fill the position.

In my opinion when an adult is on the drive team he or she is taking away from a student's opportunity to have a tremendously fun and rewarding experience.

Also, during strategy meetings with alliance members I see students routinely yield to the adult and not participate as actively in the conversation. The adult often seem to dominate the discussion because they are an authority figure.

What is the reasoning behind allowing adults to be coaches?

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by adlasa

What is the reasoning behind allowing adults to be coaches?

Because FIRST is about collaboration between students and adults.

We almost always have student drive coaches on our team, but have no issue with teams that have adult drive coaches.

My suggestion is to do what works for your team, whatever you're trying to get out of it, and don't worry so much about what other teams are doing.

[Justin Montois]

This topic has already been discussed at length....

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=105371

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=93881

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=77390

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=91144

[Lil' Lavery]

Here are some prior discussions on this topic.

From 2012: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=105371
From 2011: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=93881
From 2009: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=77390
From 2008: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=67426
From 2006: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=45367

Probably many more that I'm missing.

I'm not saying this is a topic that's not worthy of bringing up again. Plenty of opinions change over time. But it's probably worth getting some of the wisdom of these past posts.


e; Beaten to it while searching, heh.

[MechEng83]

Relevant link from the FRC blog: http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...-field-coaches

[nuggetsyl]

OMG this topic again. Those who stir the pot should lick the spoon.

[adlasa]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Here are some prior discussions on this topic.

From 2012: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=105371
From 2011: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=93881
From 2009: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=77390
From 2008: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=67426
From 2006: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=45367

Thank you for the links of the previous discussion, I should have done a better job searching for those.

Their are clearly some merits to having adults on the drive team and also downsides, there will probably never be a right answer.

But, one interesting argument I saw was: If adults can be coaches why cant they also drive the robot? Can anyone expand on that question?

[LeelandS]

Okay, guys. I know the Chief Delphi reflex is to dog pile on the person who starts the thread. Here's the thing: Most of these threads turn in to heated wars about whether or not mentor coaches should be allowed. I think this is a genuine question as to why? Personally, I think a mentor or student coach fits fine into the scope of FIRST.

If it's a student; well, FIRST is about the students. Students taking control and driving their own future. So yes, a student coach fits perfectly for FIRST. The students drive, the students strategize, the students compete.

Conversely, a mentor coach is a good fit as well. Because, yes, FIRST is about the students driving their own future; though they are under the direction of professional, experienced mentors. A drive team with a mentor coach has the student driving, competing, being part of the action, while the mentor (who is absolutely forbidden from touching controls) is hanging back, supervising, providing insight and instruction.

As to why adults can't drive, well, I don't feel like that is a good fit in FIRST. As I've said and we should all know, FIRST is an organization centered around students. It doesn't seem right then for adults to take control of the teams creation if we're trying to develop and inspire students.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by LeelandS

If it's a student; well, FIRST is about the students.

Nope. FIRST is about culture change. It's about changing perceptions that STEM isn't "hip". It's not about education or students exactly. It's about showing them that STEM is as cool as playing in the NFL.

[LeelandS]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Nope. FIRST is about culture change. It's about changing perceptions that STEM isn't "hip". It's not about education or students exactly. It's about showing them that STEM is as cool as playing in the NFL.

Not trying to start an argument or nitpick semantics here... But what exactly would the point of such a culture change be if not for students? The culture change is to encourage the next generation to pick up STEM. The next generation is the current students. If FIRST is about the culture change...

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by LeelandS

Not trying to start an argument or nitpick semantics here... But what exactly would the point of such a culture change be if not for students? The culture change is to encourage the next generation to pick up STEM. The next generation is the current students. If FIRST is about the culture change...

Ah, I started out nitpicking. Your assertion that students need to be a focus is accurate. I'm merely asserting that they aren't THE focus implication being that there are other things that also must be focused on as well if we are to attain our goals.

[magnets]

The answer to this question really depends on the team. On our team, we never even think about having an adult coach. Ever. The students would kill the mentors. Our team works on the theory that student build the robot, and mentors provide engineering guidance. However, many teams are much different. For instance, 148's idea is to have mentors and students work with each other with equal roles. As a result, the students may not do as much work, but they still get as much inspiration, and get to work on and get exposed some of the more advanced and technical stuff on FRC robots. There are fantastic teams with adult coaches, and fantastic teams with student coaches.

[JVN]

Originally Posted by magnets

For instance, 148's idea is to have mentors and students work with each other with equal roles. As a result, the students may not do as much work, but they still get as much inspiration, and get to work on and get exposed some of the more advanced and technical stuff on FRC robots.

I would not comment in this thread, except our team was specifically mentioned and perhaps misrepresented...

Our team emphasizes a partnership between students and mentors in all aspects of our program. Students and mentors work together on brainstorming.
Students and mentors work together on design.
Our team benefits from a sheet-metal sponsor, who helps fabricate our "bent" parts.
Students do almost all of the manufacturing of our "machined" parts.
Students do almost all of the robot assembly.
Students and mentors work together on programming.
Students and mentors work together on iteration and debugging.
Students and mentors share responsibility at competition.
Our driveteam contains 3 students and 1 mentor coach.

I will say...
To imply that our students "may not do as much work" is funny to me, and would cause a lot of eye-rolls from the students on our team.

[magnets]

Originally Posted by JVN

I would not comment in this thread, except our team was specifically mentioned and perhaps misrepresented...

Our team emphasizes a partnership between students and mentors in all aspects of our program. Students and mentors work together on brainstorming.
Students and mentors work together on design.
Our team benefits from a sheet-metal sponsor, who helps fabricate our "bent" parts.
Students do almost all of the manufacturing of our "machined" parts.
Students do almost all of the robot assembly.
Students and mentors work together on programming.
Students and mentors work together on iteration and debugging.
Students and mentors share responsibility at competition.
Our driveteam contains 3 students and 1 mentor coach.

I will say...
To imply that our students "may not do as much work" is funny to me, and would cause a lot of eye-rolls from the students on our team.

I didn't mean it that way at all. In fact, I think that running things your way can be better and less frustrating. I know that the way your team runs is fantastic, and in no way was I trying to say that your students didn't work hard. They must work hard in order to make such great robots. What I was trying to say was that on a team like yours, the students and the mentors work together. As a result, the team is more efficient, and doesn't waste time/resources, because the adults make more rational and have more experience to back up their decisions.

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by JVN

I would not comment in this thread, except our team was specifically mentioned and perhaps misrepresented...

This is why I think CD users should stay away from making statements or assumptions about other teams without specific involvement or understanding of the team.

624 has always had a student coach, and that has worked well for us as the drive team can fully understand each other and have a common basis on which to build upon; that is they see each other every day at school and already have an existing and good relationship. We don't have to start from scratch. It also emphasizes more student-driven leadership.

However, there is nothing wrong with an adult coach, for the reasons others have already mentioned. Both sides can be argued for and rightly defended. It boils down to team philosophy and structure.