Definition of A Catch

[pntbll1313]

Based on the two definitions below, a robot gets credit for a catch if they simply impel the ball in a desired direction. So you don't have to "catch" the ball in the way we normally think about it. You just need to push it in a desired direction before it hits the floor and you get full points. Anyone else reading it differently?

The definition of a CATCH:
A CATCH occurs when a BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT’S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting the carpet or HUMAN PLAYER. An ALLIANCE receives CATCH points only if the CATCH is directly preceded by a TRUSS SCORE.

The definition of POSSESS:
POSSESS: (for a ROBOT) to carry (move while supporting BALLS in or on the ROBOT), herd (repeated pushing or bumping), launch (impel BALLS to a desired location or direction), or trap (overt isolation or holding one or more
BALLS against a FIELD element or ROBOT in an attempt to shield them) a BALL.

[MasterEric]

Originally Posted by pntbll1313

You just need to push it in a desired direction before it hits the floor and you get full points.

You sir are a genius.

[TheDrillKeeper]

Pushing it would be considered either a herd or a launch, but would most likely not count as a catch. For it to be a herd, you'd have to hit it more than once before it hit the ground, and for it to be a launch, you'd have to hit a desired location. Simply bumping it with your robot means you have little control over its destination, so it would not be launching it in a "desired" direction.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Note that humans are going to be scoring this. If it looks like the ball just randomly bounced off your robot, you're probably not going to get those points. I'm thinking it's going to have to be fairly apparent that you've changed the ball's velocity in a controlled and purposeful manner.

[nathannfm]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Note that humans are going to be scoring this. If it looks like the ball just randomly bounced off your robot, you're probably not going to get those points. I'm thinking it's going to have to be fairly apparent that you've changed the ball's velocity in a controlled and purposeful manner.

Subjective rules, yay
I feel sorry for the refs for all the complaints they are going to get about this.

[wupy36]

Can you have more than one catch per cycle at all so for say does it have to be over the Truss to count as a Catch???

[EricH]

Originally Posted by wupy36

Can you have more than one catch per cycle at all so for say does it have to be over the Truss to count as a Catch???

I HIGHLY recommend that you read the Manual, specifically Section 3.1.4.

According to one of the blue boxes...you cannot have a catch without a truss score on the same throw. And according to one of the early paragraphs, truss points are only awarded once per cycle.

[themccannman]

Originally Posted by wupy36

Can you have more than one catch per cycle at all so for say does it have to be over the Truss to count as a Catch???

It has to clear the truss to be eligible for catch points. Catch points, like truss points, are only applied once per cycle. Please read the manual more carefully.

In regards to the definition of a catch. A catch is defined as such:

CATCH: the event when a BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT’S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting the carpet or HUMAN PLAYER.

And here is the definition of possessed:

POSSESS: (for a ROBOT) to carry (move while supporting BALLS in or on the ROBOT), herd (repeated pushing or bumping), launch (impel BALLS to a desired location or direction), or trap (overt isolation or holding one or more BALLS against a FIELD element or ROBOT in an attempt to shield them) a BALL.

The important part here is the definition of "launch". Launch is defined as impelling a game piece in a desired direction. Not trying to lawyer; this seems to mean to me that if you have an angled ramp on the top of your robot that directs the ball in a certain direction when it contacts the ramp that qualifies as impelling in a desired direction. As far as I can tell, if you have a flat, ramp-shaped robot a ball landing on the ramp and bouncing in a desired direction is defined as launching the ball, which qualifies as possession, which makes the catch legitimate.

[Jack_O]

The ramp idea seems invalid due to the deflection specifications.

[wupy36]

This is from the game manual 3.1.4 "points are rewarded once per cycle... for each robot catch"

Why is the each used if there is only one?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by wupy36

What I was trying to say was that are we able to through it without a truss pass over and get points from just a pass to another bot and is that defined at a catch for points?


So throw it they catch it (without a truss pass over) and receive points which doesnt state that anywhere in the Rule/Manual.

Oh, it does. It does indeed. Why do you think we're telling you to read the Manual?

Originally Posted by Section 3.1.4 1st Blue Box

An ALLIANCE receives CATCH points only if the CATCH is directly preceded by a TRUSS SCORE. This means that an ALLIANCE can only receive CATCH points once per CYCLE and will not receive CATCH points if the TRUSS SCORE criteria are not met.

[Rypsnort]

a system like some of the teams used in breakaway to directed balls from the input ramp into the goals would definitely count as herding a ball in a desired direction.

[Siri]

I would suggest that this discussion needs to include the Blue Box quote from G12:

Examples of BALL interaction that are not POSSESSION are
A. “bulldozing” (inadvertently coming in contact with BALLS that happen to be in the path of the ROBOT as it moves about the FIELD) and
B. “deflecting” (being hit by a propelled BALL that bounces or rolls off the ROBOT). [emphasis mine]
A BALL that becomes unintentionally lodged on a ROBOT will be considered POSSESSED by the ROBOT. It is important to design your ROBOT so that it is impossible to inadvertently or intentionally POSSESS an opponent’s BALL.

A ramp top sounds a lot more like a deflection than a launch: the balls is already being propelled, and it will bounce or roll off you. Sounds very 469-in-2010, actually, not that it matters directly here. (Note that "inadvertent/unintentional" is not included in the definition of deflection, even though it's in the other box's other two points.) I think we'll need a Q&A, probably something about the energy transferred in launching vs deflecting.

[Cal578]

The description of what's not a Possession (quoted above) seem to make it clear that bouncing the ball off something like a ramp wouldn't count as a Catch.

Maybe it would help if we consider every-day English definitions of Launch versus Deflect. Launching (or propelling) would add momentum to the ball (the ball starts stationary relative to the robot, then exits with a non-zero velocity). Deflecting (or bumping) merely changes the direction of momentum.

[EricWilliams]

Originally Posted by Siri

I would suggest that this discussion needs to include the Blue Box quote from G12

I don't understand how this didn't end the debate.