Team UPDATE - 2014-01-07

[Steven Donow]

http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/Updates/0#term127

Game Manual:

Game Details
MATCH Logistics
We've received questions about how a MATCH will proceed if a BALL gets stuck on or in a ROBOT or on the TRUSS. We are in the process of refining the process and are incorporating feedback from Chief volunteers to identify the cleanest solution.

Scoring
For BALLS with which the ALLIANCE started the MATCH, points are awarded when they are SCORED in GOALS.

For BALLS retrieved from an ALLIANCE'S PEDASTAL, points are awarded to ALLIANCES per the details below. Final scores will be assessed five (5) seconds after the ARENA timer displays zero (0) or when all elements come to rest, whichever event happens first.

Points are awarded once per CYCLE for BALLS SCORED by ROBOTS in the GOALS, BALLS SCORED by ROBOTS over the TRUSS, and for each ROBOT CATCH and as each objective is achieved. Additional points are credited to an ALLIANCE upon each GOAL based on the number of ASSISTS earned by the ALLIANCE for that CYCLE.

A BALL is considered SCORED in an ALLIANCE’S GOAL if

a ROBOT causes one (1) of their ALLIANCE’S BALLS to cross completely through the opening(s) of one (1) of their ALLIANCE’S GOALS and into the opposing ALLIANCE STATION without intervening human contact,
the ALLIANCE ROBOT last in contact with the BALL was entirely between the TRUSS and their ALLIANCE’S HIGH GOALS, and
the BALL is not in contact with any ROBOT from that ALLIANCE.
Pre-MATCH
G4
When placed on the FIELD, each ROBOT must be:

in compliance with all ROBOT rules (i.e. have passed Inspection),
confined to its STARTING CONFIGURATION,
entirely within their GOALIE ZONE, or
entirely within the white ZONE and between the TRUSS and their GOALS, and
fully supported by the floor.

TEAMS positioning ROBOTS in the white ZONE have precedence over opponents placing ROBOTS in the GOALIE ZONE.


Violation: If fix is a quick remedy: the MATCH won’t start until all requirements are met. If it is not a quick remedy: the ROBOT will be DISABLED and must be re-Inspected.

ROBOT Actions
G26-1
ROBOTS may not break the planes of the openings of the opponent’s LOW GOALS.

Violation: FOUL. If extended, strategic, or repeated, TECHNICAL FOUL.


Game Manual
Many of the USB Image Restoration Keys that shipped with the Green Totes have been reported as damaged. If you are in this situation, you can follow the instructions here to fix your USB Image Restoration Key. We want to remind Rookie Teams that the Classmate that shipped in the Green Tote has a Windows 7 image on it, so the Team is not required to image the computer.

The Kickoff Kit Checklist for the Black Tote has been updated. The errors that were corrected are:

The Ice Cube Cooler Kit quantity has been changed to 1.
The Panel Signal Device has been added as a “loose” item.

Administrative Manual

Interview Process and DVD Requirement
Teams submitting for the Chairman’s Award must provide a DVD to the judges at the start of their Chairman’s Award interview. The content of the video must be in English and should explain what the team has done to earn the Chairman’s Award. The video content may be in the team’s native language, but if that language is not English, the team must add English subtitles to be eligible for the Chairman’s Award at any event in the US or Canada, or at any non-US or Canadian event at which their native language is not generally spoken. The video may be shown to the judges during the team’s 5 minute presentation time or the team can choose to not show the video during the presentation time. Even if the video is NOT shown during the interview, a DVD must still be provided to the Judges in order for the team to be considered for the Chairman’s Award. In addition, the team must provide the equipment for viewing (i.e. laptop/speakers etc.) the video. Teams who do not submit a DVD to the judges will not be considered eligible for the Chairman’s Award and will not be interviewed by the judges. This is applicable at all events including the FIRST Championship.

Changes in bold.


Good to see clarification on some things (precedence in placing robots) and that they're figuring out what to do about stuck balls.

[JeffersonMartin]

I may be reading this wrong, but is this saying that auto balls not scored in auto can be scored in teleop?

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by JeffersonMartin

I may be reading this wrong, but is this saying that auto balls not scored in auto can be scored in teleop?

I believe so. Now it is providing a distinction between balls part of a cycle and balls obtained at the beginning of a match.

EDIT: Upon further reading/thought/discussino in this thread, it seems like they are not eligible for Truss/Assist/Catch points

[JeffersonMartin]

Originally Posted by DevenStonow

I believe so. Now it is providing a distinction between balls part of a cycle and balls obtained at the beginning of a match. This update also leads me to believe that autonomous balls are eligible for Truss/Catch/Assist points, although I'm not certain.

Well, if this is true, it could make sense to not score balls in auto. Your possibility for points is much higher in teleop.

[bam-bam]

The balls not scored in autonomous are not eligible for truss, catch or assist points from what I read.

See:

For BALLS retrieved from an ALLIANCE'S PEDASTAL, points are awarded to ALLIANCES per the details below.

Balls in autonomous were not received from the pedastal, therefore not awarded per the specified details (which includes truss, catch and assist points among others).

[themccannman]

Originally Posted by bam-bam

The balls not scored in autonomous are not eligible for truss, catch or assist points from what I read.

See:

Balls in autonomous were not received from the pedastal, therefore not awarded per the specified details (which includes truss, catch and assist points among others).

I'm pretty sure this settles it. You can only get a max of 10 points per ball that was left over after auto.

[SM987]

This is somewhat disappointing. A flawless auto now gives you a smaller point advantage (plus a faster cycle start). Takes some emphasis off auto.

[jee7s]

Originally Posted by SM987

This is somewhat disappointing. A flawless auto now gives you a smaller point advantage (plus a faster cycle start). Takes some emphasis off auto.

How do you figure? You still get the bonuses, right? Just making the high goal and driving forward is worth two goals. And, the less performing you are in Autonomous, the longer it takes to start your first cycle of the match. I don't see how there's that much of a change here.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by jee7s

How do you figure? You still get the bonuses, right? Just making the high goal and driving forward is worth two goals. And, the less performing you are in Autonomous, the longer it takes to start your first cycle of the match. I don't see how there's that much of a change here.

It reduces the point advantage to 15 points from what it was. The faster cycle start is arguably non-existent as well since the missed ball can be retrieved by the best high goal scorer (who will most likely stay in the colored zone anyways) while the other two robots go delay the start of the opponents' first cycle via defense and setup for the start of their own cycles. The only reliable counter to that is a goalie bot, which then puts the 3rd autonomous ball at risk (unless it's a NASA bot...).

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by JesseK

It reduces the point advantage to 15 points from what it was. The faster cycle start is arguably non-existent as well since the missed ball can be retrieved by the best high goal scorer (who will most likely stay in the colored zone anyways) while the other two robots go delay the start of the opponents' first cycle via defense and setup for the start of their own cycles. The only reliable counter to that is a goalie bot, which then puts the 3rd autonomous ball at risk (unless it's a NASA bot...).

I know it's not always great to make direct comparisons, but in 2013, if an alliance took advantage of all discs availalbe on your half of the field, they could score 78 points (the points available at midfield would give an extra 12 points). In 2014, the points an alliance can score in autonomous is 75. It's not that bad.

[Lil' Lavery]

One of the best team updates ever!

Originally Posted by SM987

This is somewhat disappointing. A flawless auto now gives you a smaller point advantage (plus a faster cycle start). Takes some emphasis off auto.

If you thought they wouldn't be worth points before, yes I agree that it takes "some" emphasis off of autonomous mode. But there's still a huge emphasis, not the least of which is starting your cycle sooner. Five bonus points for each ball scored (regardless of goal), five points for moving, and a possibly five points further for scoring in a hot goal. That could be 15 points per robot in bonuses alone.

[cbudrecki]

disappointed that they didn't really define G4, C - "their GOALIE ZONE". although, the "opponents placing ROBOTS in the GOALIE ZONE" does indirectly clarify it a bit.

[Duncan Macdonald]

A BALL is considered SCORED in an ALLIANCE’S GOAL if

a ROBOT causes one (1) of their ALLIANCE’S BALLS to cross completely through the opening(s) of one (1) of their ALLIANCE’S GOALS and into the opposing ALLIANCE STATION without intervening human contact,
the ALLIANCE ROBOT last in contact with the BALL was entirely between the TRUSS and their ALLIANCE’S HIGH GOALS, and
the BALL is not in contact with any ROBOT from that ALLIANCE.
....
ALLIANCE STATION: the area bounded by the ALLIANCE WALL, LOW GOALS, white tape depicted in Figure 2.11: The ALLIANCE STATION.

emphasis mine

Perhaps I'm being overly cautious, but I am reading this to effectively say "A ball must land within the alliance station to score" because the alliance station is defined as an area and not a volume (or projection of an area). This would limit the maximum range to get credit for a goal at about 10 feet. (Also increase safety for anyone walking behind the field if you like that kind of thing)

Thoughts?

[JeffersonMartin]

Originally Posted by Duncan Macdonald

emphasis mine

Perhaps I'm being overly cautious, but I am reading this to effectively say "A ball must land within the alliance station to score" because the alliance station is defined as an area and not a volume (or projection of an area). This would limit the maximum range to get credit for a goal at about 10 feet. (Also increase safety for anyone walking behind the field if you like that kind of thing)

Thoughts?

I don't know if it increases safety. I see this getting a lot more coaches and drivers, who can't really be aware of balls coming in through the goal, hit by scored balls.

[jee7s]

Originally Posted by Duncan Macdonald

emphasis mine

Perhaps I'm being overly cautious, but I am reading this to effectively say "A ball must land within the alliance station to score" because the alliance station is defined as an area and not a volume (or projection of an area). This would limit the maximum range to get credit for a goal at about 10 feet. (Also increase safety for anyone walking behind the field if you like that kind of thing)

Thoughts?

The definition of ALLIANCE STATION is:

The Red and Blue ALLIANCE STATIONS are located at either end of the FIELD, behind the ALLIANCE WALLS. The ALLIANCE STATION extends 10 ft. back from the ALLIANCE WALL and 1 ft. 8 in. beyond the carpet on each side. The ALLIANCE STATION includes the three (3) PLAYER STATIONS and one (1) PEDESTAL. The STARTING LINE is marked with white 2 in. wide gaffers tape 2 ft. 6 in. behind the ALLIANCE WALL. The ALLIANCE STATION includes the area up to the entry gates of the FIELD, with the end of the ALLIANCE STATION marked out in 2 in. white gaffers tape.

Since it extends "behind the ALLIANCE WALLS" and the ALLIANCE WALLS are vertical, that means the ALLIANCE STATION is a volume, by my interpretation.

IMHO.