Speed is definately going to be a factor....

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Posted by Hymnson at 2/6/2001 10:47 PM EST


Student on team #419, The Rambots, from Boston College High School and UMass Boston and Modern Assistance Programs, Inc..



So what do you consider a really fast robot? Estimates? Cuz speed is going to be a vital element to this competition along with teamwork since there isn't going to be much intense ramming or such...

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Posted by Andy Baker at 2/7/2001 12:32 AM EST


Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.


In Reply to: Speed is definately going to be a factor....
Posted by Hymnson on 2/6/2001 10:47 PM EST:



Alright, alright...

We've all heard that the Rambots are fast this year. From the sightings of a flying robot over New England to a robot who can catch it's own tail... you guys keep touting how fast this creature is.

Let's hear the facts. Answer these three questions and you'll tell us just how fast the Rambot '01 is:

What ratio are you running?

What is your wheel size?

How much does your robot weigh?

There are other questions, but these are the three most important. We assume that you are running in high gear (at least) on the drill motors.

---

To answer your question...

Yes, speed will be very important this year. There will be some robots who can go across the field in under 5 seconds, probably... but, they will also have some problems. Robot controlability is one thing that you gotta deal with, along with tripping the breakers after 20 seconds of running. Also, if you wanna do any turning, breakers will trip quickly.

The fastest robot I saw last year was team 188's (Woburn Robotics) 'bot at the Great Lakes Regional. They could get across the field in under 5 seconds, I think. They decided to gear down (slow down) for Nationals to be able to better control their robot. They had a 3:1 ratio on the drill motors in high gear, and they had 7 or 8" dia. wheels (if I remeber correctly... I don't want to mis-speak their design).

Buzz (175) also had a darn fast robot, but not quite as fast as 188's at Great Lakes. There are probably others, but these two stick out.

As for us... we're trying to get some speed, but with tank treads. Looks OK so far.

Andy B.

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Posted by Josh at 2/7/2001 1:33 AM EST


Engineer on team #419, Rambots, from Wentworth Institute of Technology.


In Reply to: How fast is a Rambot?
Posted by Andy Baker on 2/7/2001 12:32 AM EST:



well, i'm not exactly sure on the gear ratio, but we have the 8 inch wheelchair wheels going high speed on both drill motors. While we do have a little bit more weight to add, we are about 50 lbs right now. Anton did the gear ratio's so he should be able to tell you what they are...if he decides to let that information out...

Josh
Team 419
"Murphy's Laws: No one's life, liberty or property are safe while the legislature is in session"

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Posted by Anton Abaya at 2/7/2001 1:49 AM EST


Coach on team #419, Rambots, from UMass Boston / BC High and NONE AT THE MOMENT! .


In Reply to: Re: How fast is a Rambot?
Posted by Josh on 2/7/2001 1:33 AM EST:



SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Funny that I have to say this considering i'm the noisiest in here.... welll.....SHHH!! anyway guys!

Let me clarify this once and for all...

Firstly, I must say thank you to all you guys who answered all my questions with regard to gear ratios and heat etc..etc..

Secondly, I shall admit that we currently have speed. How much is the question. The gear ratios are ahem... a trade secret (eh....if they wont give, i wont give). But based on my original calculations, we are moving at a rate of ~15ft/sec without load at high gear.

Thirdly, I do apologize for the subtle hints of speed. I must say it is probably my fault because I keep driving the robot like crazy trying to break it at and let the smoke out of it. So far so good though...so i've been i guess lucky?

Fourthly, RAMBOTS, I ask you to keep some things to ourselves and pass it through me first before you tell the world . I am lenient, but I like to censor too some things....so dont get too excited.

Lastly, as for speed, yes, we are a fast robot this year and we actually still might go down to low gear. I can only hint that the gear ratio was actually designed for low gear but was tested at high. We just got lucky that we're not tripping any breakers or overheating any motors. Weight wise, we are currently pretty light and might stay well below the limit. Josh was wrong with the 50lbs estimate. (Josh, shh. )

Anyhow, I apologize if some members are repeating what has been said, I have no control over them.

-anton
team leader
rambots, #419

ps. for that matter, i do not recall nick shooting down our robot yet... it's still flying north toward florida...

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Posted by Anton Abaya at 2/7/2001 1:59 AM EST


Coach on team #419, Rambots, from UMass Boston / BC High and NONE AT THE MOMENT! .


In Reply to: My dearest rambots...(and andy too)
Posted by Anton Abaya on 2/7/2001 1:49 AM EST:



just for andy.... considering he helped me earlier this year to get some free structural profiles (aka. 80/20 stuff).... thanks andy, remind me to shake your hand at florida (or bow and kiss ur feet )....either way is a great honor for me.

anyhow, thanks to a combination of gear ratios, drill speed, tips, advice, etc.... all from JoeJ, KenL, AndyB, to name a few (and everyone else who replied to my unending questions)......

the hint is we rotate a 720 degrees (+/- 30 degrees) in one second. this was accomplished on tiled smooth flooring....which by the way I am not demonstrating as much because it is eating up our wheels.

Fast enough? you tell me. As andy pointed out, this speed it difficult to maneuver as I have discovered. I am finding solutions via software.

"Time will tell." -JoeJ

-anton abaya
team leader (aka team ninny)
rambots, #419

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Posted by Andy Baker at 2/7/2001 10:00 AM EST


Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.


In Reply to: fine fine... A HINT.
Posted by Anton Abaya on 2/7/2001 1:59 AM EST:



: just for andy.... considering he helped me earlier this year to get some free structural profiles (aka. 80/20 stuff).... thanks andy

Cool. I was wondering if that came through.

We use extrusions and fasteners from IPS (formerly Item Products). They are great to work with and we've used them for 10 years here at Delphi-Delco to make production equipment. If anyone else is interested in them, their site is:

www.industrialprofile.com

These guys were even cool enough to give a $500 credit as a prize for a FIRST team at last year's Indiana Robotics Invitational.

These types of extrusions are excellent to work with, especially for FIRST robots. The adjustability during debug is key.

The good thing about adjustability is that it is adjustable... the bad thing, though, is that it is adjustable.

(some may have no clue what the above statement means... but, just like speed, adjustability can kill ya)


Andy B.

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Posted by Nate Smith at 2/7/2001 11:42 AM EST


Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: Good Job on getting aluminum profiles
Posted by Andy Baker on 2/7/2001 10:00 AM EST:



: We use extrusions and fasteners from IPS (formerly Item Products). They are great to work with...

Look for us to be using IPS stuff just a LITTLE this year =) As for exactly what, I'm not saying quite yet, but you'll find out soon enough at West Michigan(or when I get bored and put some pictures of what we've got so far online...)

Nate

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Posted by Jim Meyer at 2/7/2001 1:53 PM EST


Engineer on team #67, HOT Team, from Huron Valley Schools and GM Milford Proving Ground.


In Reply to: Good Job on getting aluminum profiles
Posted by Andy Baker on 2/7/2001 10:00 AM EST:



For those of you that don't know what Andy is talking about I thought I would attempt to elaborate.

I used to think adjustability was good. You could slide this and tweak that until you got everything "just right". I then took a course on Robust Engineering. One of the first things they said was that adjustability is bad. How could this be? If something was out of whack how could you fix it if ther were no adjustments to make? Well the whole point was to design it so that adjustments wouldn't be needed.

Anyway, just some stuff for you guys to think about.

This lack of adjustability has a strong presence on our machine this year. (No roller chain!) Hopefully this works out to be a good thing. (fingers crossed)

IMHO
Jim Meyer

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Posted by George at 2/7/2001 1:55 AM EST


Coach on team #180, S.P.A.M., from None and UTC Pratt Whitney.


In Reply to: Re: How fast is a Rambot?
Posted by Josh on 2/7/2001 1:33 AM EST:



umm... to you guys tellin your speed... it would be a bit clearer (to me at least) if you could put these speeds in feet per second.

we're running about 7 feet per second. so, that's about 8 seconds or so (taking in account slowing down over the bridge) for us to cross the field.

well, good luck to everyone :-]

George
S.P.A.M. Team 180

"Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill."
-- Gildor Inglorion (Lord of the Rings)

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Posted by Erin at 2/7/2001 7:26 AM EST


Other on team #65, Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: How fast is a Rambot?
Posted by Andy Baker on 2/7/2001 12:32 AM EST:



: Alright, alright...

3rd place at nationals could have definitely been a purpose of their speed (and the fact that the huskies are awesome)...but anyway, anyway...

I think rage was the fastest robot...they would literally "fly" over the ramp and slam into the other wall. so fast one time that they even really messed up their end effector. ah, what great memories.

osmtech was pretty fast too- they won for speed at the B.O.M.B. (even though Justin and Anthony from 221 were driving...)

-Erin

p.s. I do agree that speed takes out a lot of the manuverability (duh) but with the right training i believe that it can be done

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Posted by Matt Leese at 2/7/2001 6:10 PM EST


Other on team #73, Tigerbolt, from Edison Technical HS and Alstom & Fiber Technologies & RIT.


In Reply to: How fast is a Rambot?
Posted by Andy Baker on 2/7/2001 12:32 AM EST:



Well, I figure Firestorm was fairly fast last year
(team 7). We did the 8 inch wheel chair wheels, drills
in high speed, and NO gear ratio (bad idea but anyway).
I don't think we were ever beaten to the black ball
when we had the drills in high speed (we once were when
we were in low speed). I'm not sure exactly how fast
we were but we definately ran right into the far wall
at every match....

Matt formerly of Team 7

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Posted by Anton Abaya at 2/7/2001 1:52 AM EST


Coach on team #419, Rambots, from UMass Boston / BC High and NONE AT THE MOMENT! .


In Reply to: Speed is definately going to be a factor....
Posted by Hymnson on 2/6/2001 10:47 PM EST:



: So what do you consider a really fast robot? Estimates? Cuz speed is going to be a vital element to this competition along with teamwork since there isn't going to be much intense ramming or such...

hymnson...

i coulda answered ya buddy! who do you think calculated our speed devil? ask me next time ... (unless of course this was just a general question for everyone)...

dont get ur hopes up yet, i havent abused our baby yet.

-anton

ps. every question u can probably think of with regard to our team/robot... i've prolly already asked. REALLY...i'm running out of questions to ask. heh

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Posted by Hymnson at 2/7/2001 5:59 PM EST


Student on team #419, The Rambots, from Boston College High School and UMass Boston and Modern Assistance Programs, Inc..


In Reply to: why dont u ask me?
Posted by Anton Abaya on 2/7/2001 1:52 AM EST:



: : So what do you consider a really fast robot? Estimates? Cuz speed is going to be a vital element to this competition along with teamwork since there isn't going to be much intense ramming or such...

: hymnson...

: i coulda answered ya buddy! who do you think calculated our speed devil? ask me next time ... (unless of course this was just a general question for everyone)...

: dont get ur hopes up yet, i havent abused our baby yet.

: -anton

: ps. every question u can probably think of with regard to our team/robot... i've prolly already asked. REALLY...i'm running out of questions to ask. heh


Whoa, I didn't think this would create such a big reply/controversy, it was just an innocent and general question. Cuz I wanted to get an estimate from other teams about how fast their robots were.

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Posted by Chris Orimoto at 2/7/2001 12:05 PM EST


Student on team #368, Kika Mana, from McKinley High School and Nasa Ames/Hawaiian Electric/Weinberg Foundation.


In Reply to: Speed is definately going to be a factor....
Posted by Hymnson on 2/6/2001 10:47 PM EST:



I honestly feel that control is just as important a factor as speed. I think that there should be a nice compromise between the two.

This is especially important because any team that is planning to grab the goals by that "little" aluminum front bar (and there are a LOT of you out there)have a very SMALL margin of error. A blitzing robot that flies into the goal will have an AMAZINGLY tough time trying to grab that bar.

Also, for teams that are trying to cross the midfield divider, either over or under the bar, (and there are a lot of you out there too) it will probably be VERY difficult to control a robot and align perfectly when you are running at a blazing speed.

Just my personal thoughts...

Chris, #368

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Posted by Joe Ross at 2/7/2001 3:00 PM EST


Engineer on team #330, Beach Bot, from Hope Chapel Academy and NASA/JPL , J&F Machine, and Raytheon.


In Reply to: Re: Speed is definately going to be a factor....
Posted by Chris Orimoto on 2/7/2001 12:05 PM EST:



: This is especially important because any team that is planning to grab the goals by that "little" aluminum front bar (and there are a LOT of you out there)have a very SMALL margin of error. A blitzing robot that flies into the goal will have an AMAZINGLY tough time trying to grab that bar.

maybe there are ways to grab the goal at full speed and maybe at an angle...

Just a thought