A simple and easy way to make RR the best game yet...

[Exla357]

Change the rules to allow capture the flag.

Teams start with three recycling bins on each side, filled with their alliance color pool noodle. The object of the game is to get the opposing alliances noodles into your side. Teammates can use the totes to build strategic defense barriers, or something. I'm still refining the idea and open to input. I feel like if we can find a way to change the game by only adjusting the rules and not the KOP, it might have some bearing on FIRST. I'm sure they have noticed that the response to RR is a bit...subpar.

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Originally Posted by Exla357

I'm sure they have noticed that the response to RR is a bit...subpar.

Remember, though, that the response to Aerial Assist wasn't exactly glowing on Day 1.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Jacob Bendicksen

Remember, though, that the response to Aerial Assist wasn't exactly glowing on Day 1.

Ironically the complaint last year was about all the violence in Aerial Assist.Now everyone is unhappy because there is absolutely no violence in this one.

[magnets]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Ironically the complaint last year was about all the violence in Aerial Assist.Now everyone is unhappy because there is absolutely no violence in this one.

Complaints last year were from the "vocal minority" of some CD users who had some bad matches.

I really don't understand this game. How could they look at this game, named after recycling and themed around trash and then say, "Yes, kids will love this!" Did they really expect a positive response when they told us we couldn't touch opponents, or we don't win or lose matches?

Also, this game isn't going to work the way they think it will. The robots that win aren't going to be even close to 28" x 38" or some normal size.

[GKrotkov]

Originally Posted by magnets

Also, this game isn't going to work the way they think it will. The robots that win aren't going to be even close to 28" x 38" or some normal size.

Will the weight rules change this at all? 120 pounds would get rather thin when distributed over that larger area, especially if the team decides to use bumpers.

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by magnets

Also, this game isn't going to work the way they think it will. The robots that win aren't going to be even close to 28" x 38" or some normal size.

...which is why the size change is so emphasized. FIRST seems completely okay with this. You're allowed to literally assemble your robot on the field (within reason) using power tools and alignment devices, two things that have been strictly prohibited in recent years.

[Harman341]

I have a really simple way, have there be a winner of each match, and work co-op points like 2012. The flexibility in dimensions and no defense is going to foster some crazy robots this year. But, matches still won't be exciting if you're not competing. Plus, you get things like the noddle agreement if you're not trying to beat the other alliance.

[mrnoble]

Originally Posted by Harman341

I have a really simple way...

I learned the hard way last year that when FIRST releases games they mean what they say. There won't be any fundamental reworking of this game, and we don't do ourselves a favor by imagining that we can convince them our ideas are better. Probably best to drop it.

I was thoroughly wrong about a lot of things this year, too. I thought that FIRST wanted FRC to be more like a sport, but Recycle Rush proves that I was way off base. I don't think the game will prove to be boring for either teams to build and play, or for audiences to watch, and I don't think the GDC are stupid, but this game is requiring a large shift in my expectations and way of thinking.

Regarding the sizes of robots, I am super curious as to what might happen. Will we see something of the caliber of 71 from 2002? Or 469 from 2010? I'd love to know what Magnets is predicting, but I doubt he will say yet.

[Koko Ed]

If nothing else this will be a reallyeasy game to fix come IRI.
Just have teams make their stacks on the other side of the field. You'll get all the interaction you can stand. But you'll also get a really good idea why people weren't so crazy about the 2003 and that's without the King of the Hill ramp element.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by magnets

Complaints last year were from the "vocal minority" of some CD users who had some bad matches.

.

It wasn't a vocal minority. At least half the people I talked to hated that game. They didn't like the idea that there was a single game piece that encouraged teams to pass idle moments away by playing defense and encouraged heavy referee intervention.

[magnets]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

It wasn't a vocal minority. At least half the people I talked to hated that game. They didn't like the idea that there was a single game piece that encouraged teams to pass idle moments away by playing defense and encouraged heavy referee intervention.

Okay, so AA wasn't the best game that ever happened, but nobody could deny that Einstein (and most eliminations) were very exciting to watch.

I remember watching Archimedes and seeing 1114, 2056, and 4334 triple balancing against 67's alliance. The entire crowd watching the field went absolutely crazy. Because there's no winner/loser this year (up until the finals match), there simply won't be this excitement of not knowing who is going to win.

What is weird to me is that every team that isn't the event winner cannot say that they "won" any matches.

[brandon.cottrell]

Originally Posted by magnets

What is weird to me is that every team that isn't the event winner cannot say that they "won" any matches.

FIRST Robotics Competition, now with less Competition.


I think this game would've been fine with the usual mode of organizing matches, maybe the same way as 2012? This game really isn't that bad, after looking over the strategy and game organization I kind of almost like it a lot actually. Not sure about the change in tournament structure though.

[techbeast34]

Let's get this in motion. http://www.usfirst.org/contactform

Contact whoever you can, spread the word, contact other teams. This game will stunt the growth of FRC for next year, and it will make it nearly impossible for rookie teams to grow. If FIRST would like to be treated as a sport, then they must make challenges that are as exciting as sports. That includes defense between teams and also having a winner for each match.

[alicen]

A small note to the people who are complaining about win/lose and match excitement, if you're not getting excited about building a robot to meet a challenge set in front of you- REGARDLESS of being better than others- then what are you doing?

The matches will be as exciting as people choose to make them. Design an exciting robot with a concept that will surprise others, and the matches are suddenly more exciting to watch.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by alicen

A small note to the people who are complaining about win/lose and match excitement, if you're not getting excited about building a robot to meet a challenge set in front of you- REGARDLESS of being better than others- then what are you doing?

The matches will be as exciting as people choose to make them. Design an exciting robot with a concept that will surprise others, and the matches are suddenly more exciting to watch.

Many students (and mentors) are in FRC for reasons beyond just designing and building a robot. (I'm one of those.) The sports angle is intended to attract students who may not be immediately focused on design and build. Don't lose sight of that broader reach. FIRST has a truly unique model that makes project based learning exciting.