Acquiring containers from step during autonomous

[Rypsnort]

With a limited number of containers on the field taking control of the containers on the step may be important. One way to ensure control of these containers would be using autonomous mode to grab the containers. However there is a large amount of totes in the landfill making it so the robot would have to extend pretty far to get the containers. What are your thoughts on the importance of controlling the extra containers and on how to go about getting to the containers.

Going off on a tangent, this is one of few parts of the game where there is inter alliance competition as both teams have access to these containers and will have to beat the other alliance to the containers.

Personally I see this as a possibly over looked part of this game.

[mrnoble]

I guarantee it's not being overlooked.

[Steven Smith]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

I guarantee it's not being overlooked.

^^^

[Donut]

A strategy that guarantees the win when max possible points by both alliances are scored will never be overlooked. The GDC made an odd number of recycling cans on the field for a reason.

That said, it's only going to really matter come late playoff rounds at strong competitions. Few alliances will have the firepower to worry about running out of a game piece.

[orangemoore]

Originally Posted by Donut

A strategy that guarantees the win when max possible points by both alliances are scored will never be overlooked. The GDC made an odd number of recycling cans on the field for a reason.

That said, it's only going to really matter come late playoff rounds at strong competitions. Few alliances will have the firepower to worry about running out of a game piece.

Isn't 10 even?

[Steven Smith]

Yep. Three in each staging zone for the alliances, and four on the step. I could have sworn it was three on the step myself though... rules haven't all sunk in

[Mike Marandola]

Originally Posted by orangemoore

Isn't 10 even?

Yes.

Source

[Donut]

I was thinking of the most a single alliance can possess, completely forgot the other alliance has 3 when posting that total.

[Rypsnort]

The two containers in the middle would not be difficult to reach because there is a gap in the totes in the land fill so you could get to those easily and then wait until the landfill is cleared out to get the other two.

[wilderbuchanan]

Unless some teams develop non wheel robots that can stack a tote every 2 seconds from anywhere on the field ,i don't think it will matter that much. I think teams will target stacking the recycling bins and autonomous because both are worth a lot more.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by wilderbuchanan

Unless some teams develop non wheel robots that can stack a tote every 2 seconds from anywhere on the field ,i don't think it will matter that much. I think teams will target stacking the recycling bins and autonomous because both are worth a lot more.

As noted, this is mostly going to matter to top ranked teams in Elims. Especially at MSC and Champs. The question you have to ask yourself is if you think a #1 or #2 seed is capable of doing more than three 5-6 tote + container stacks. If they are, then you're starving them for points if you can control all 4 of the shared containers.

Also, picking the containers up isn't actually necessary for a denial strategy to work. You just have to get them onto your side of the field. Once they're beyond the step, they're off limits. I wouldn't be surprised to see a specialized auton and mechanism to swipe the two middle containers in autonomous mode and count on winning the race for one of the two outside containers.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

As noted, this is mostly going to matter to top ranked teams in Elims. Especially at MSC and Champs. The question you have to ask yourself is if you think a #1 or #2 seed is capable of doing more than three 5-6 tote + container stacks. If they are, then you're starving them for points if you can control all 4 of the shared containers.

Also, picking the containers up isn't actually necessary for a denial strategy to work. You just have to get them onto your side of the field. Once they're beyond the step, they're off limits. I wouldn't be surprised to see a specialized auton and mechanism to swipe the two middle containers in autonomous mode and count on winning the race for one of the two outside containers.

Presume 3 containers scored atop a stack of 5, each with a piece of litter.

Per stack, that's worth:
5 totes x 2 points ea. -- 10 pts.
5 levels x 4 points / level -- 20 pts.
1 litter x 6 points -- 6 pts.
36 pts.

3 stacks x 36 pts. per stack = 108 points.

Ignoring the additional time required, for better or for worse, presume that 2 containers are taken from the step at some point during the match and the number of totes consumed remains unchanged.

Per stack:
3 totes x 2 points ea. -- 6 pts.
3 levels x 4 points / level -- 12 pts.
1 litter x 6 points -- 6 pts.
24 pts. per stack.

5 stacks x 24 pts. per stack = 120 points.

In many instances, it'll be more efficient for alliances to form more shorter stacks than a few taller ones if containers can be obtained and scored on those stacks. It's easier to make shorter tote stacks and easier to place containers on shorter stacks, as well.

[who716]

well knowing there is no starting configuration you could start with your robot fully extended with two arms, grabbing at the containers and have it lined up perfectly so that when auto start you grab them spin drop them in the zone then grab the other two

[Jarren Harkema]

Originally Posted by who716

well knowing there is no starting configuration you could start with your robot fully extended with two arms, grabbing at the containers and have it lined up perfectly so that when auto start you grab them spin drop them in the zone then grab the other two

Except for that G7-C states "When placed on the FIELD for a MATCH, each ROBOT must be: completely outside of their AUTO ZONE and LANDFILL ZONE."

This would include any arms or appendages that are reaching over into the landfill zone.

[TomThompson]

The definition of each zone in the glossary does not include a vertical extension of the boundaries. Wondering if this implies that hanging over the boundary is OK as long as you aren't in contact with the floor or the game designers overlooked it. Maybe this needs some clarification.

Added thought - the zones are referred to as areas and not volumes. That would be another indication to me that the rule refers to contact with the marked area by a part of the robot.