Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015

[Al Skierkiewicz]

OK, it is that time again so I will start here with Bumpers (Yes, I have had several teams report that they intend to add bumpers this year).

Yes, you can add bumpers this year but they are entirely optional and...
1. They must be weighed as part of the robot weight, and that total cannot exceed 120 Lbs, R4.
2. The bumpers when attached must also fit in the TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION R3.
3. Bumper construction will be inspected for potential safety hazards and attachments like any other robot parts.
3. As bumpers are entirely optional, they do not need to cover specific areas of the frame perimeter.
4. Bumpers do not need to be constructed as suggested in the Bumper Design Guide found here. Be aware that the guide is a tried and tested design.

In addition to the rules as published, Team Updates come out on Tuesday and Friday each week. If Team Update changes or modifies a robot rule, that change will be part of the inspection process at subsequent events.

I would like to point out a Team Update was published Friday, 2/6/2015, concerning custom MXP boards. This is not a change in the rule but a clarification to make it easier to understand and flow chart is included. Restated, if you have any active components on your custom made MXP board and you are using any of the PWM outputs on the MXP connector for controlling motors or servos, the board can only be one of the three pre-approved boards listed in R58.

More to come later...

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

2. The bumpers when attached must also fit in the TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION R3.

Unless you're going to install the bumpers (in under 60 seconds) once you reach the playing field.

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

Unless you're going to install the bumpers (in under 60 seconds) once you reach the playing field.

However, they are still taken into account for Transport Configuration, wherever they are stored on the Robot.

Maybe delete "when attached" from the bullet point.

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

I would like to point out a Team Update was published Friday, 2/6/2015, concerning custom MXP boards. ...This is not a change in the rule but a clarification to make it easier to understand and flow chart is included. Restated, if you have any active components on your custom made MXP board and you are using any of the PWM outputs on the MXP connector for controlling motors or servos, the board can only be one of the three pre-approved boards listed in R58.

More to come later...

Is a simplified interpretation: "Except for the pre-approved boards, and boards with no components (board is only line traces), No connection from the MXP board to a Motor Controller."?

Any thoughts on why Custom Circuits cannot be used for PWM, but are allowed on the CAN Bus, and thus might be controlling the Motor Controllers?

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by rich2202

Any thoughts on why Custom Circuits cannot be used for PWM, but are allowed on the CAN Bus, and thus might be controlling the Motor Controllers?

I believe that this is in keeping with R57:

Originally Posted by 2015 Game Manual, R57

Every relay module, servo, and PWM motor controller shall be connected to a corresponding port (relays to Relay ports, servos and PWM controllers to PWM ports) on the roboRIO or via a legal MXP connection (per R58). They shall not be controlled by signals from any other source.

As I interpret it, they are trying to ensure that when they issue the "disable" command, that they are certain that it will have that effect. This is both a safety and a game issue.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by rich2202

but are allowed on the CAN Bus, and thus might be controlling the Motor Controllers?

Because R59 say all motor controllers on the CAN Bus must be controlled by the RoboRIO and R62 says CUSTOM CIRCUITS or other devices that interfere with those communications are not allowed.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Gus,
The TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION will be determined during inspection at the same time as weight. Under Tournament rule T6 there is no provision for removing bumpers to determine size limits.

T6 While transferring the ROBOT throughout the event (e.g. between the Team’s Pit, Practice Field, ARENA, Inspection Station, etc.), the ROBOT must not exceed a volume that is 28 in. wide x 42 in. long x 78 in. tall (the TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION).
(Emphasis is mine.)

Safety is our prime concern for everyone involved. As such, nothing may cause robot movement until and during the times the robot is enabled by the Field Management System.

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Gus,
The TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION will be determined during inspection at the same time as weight. Under Tournament rule T6 there is no provision for removing bumpers to determine size limits.

There is also no rule requiring bumpers be attached at their operating position for Transport Configuration. During TC, the bumpers could be sitting inside the robot, and on the field quickly attached with pins.

[jvriezen]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Gus,
The TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION will be determined during inspection at the same time as weight. Under Tournament rule T6 there is no provision for removing bumpers to determine size limits.

T6 While transferring the ROBOT throughout the event (e.g. between the Team’s Pit, Practice Field, ARENA, Inspection Station, etc.), the ROBOT must not exceed a volume that is 28 in. wide x 42 in. long x 78 in. tall (the TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION).
(Emphasis is mine.)

I'm not getting this Al. Why can't I remove my bumpers, store them inside the bot, and transport my bot to the practice field, arena, inspection area, etc. Check the weight & TC volume with the bumpers stored inside the bot, and then put them on if needed for additional inspection, just like I'd put any other attachment on after transporting to the inspection station. Since your quoted rules never mention the word BUMPER, how does your bumper restriction not also apply to any other attachment that must be relocated for transporting?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

John and Rich,
It is my understanding, that bumpers, if used, are part of the robot, just like an arm, a pickup device or the control system. That means that the bumpers are not considered separate of the ROBOT and all rules apply. As such, the bumpers need to be mounted on the robot for weight and size. I suppose you can (for this year only) have bumpers on moveable parts that retract the bumpers into the robot for determining the TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION. Just as in the past, if you have multiple devices that can be used on your robot, all mechanisms must be weighed together, and the overall size will need to be determined for each configuration under R4. The change in the bumper rules applies to this season. There is no telling what next season will bring.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

John and Rich,
It is my understanding, that bumpers, if used, are part of the robot, just like an arm, a pickup device or the control system. That means that the bumpers are not considered separate of the ROBOT and all rules apply. As such, the bumpers need to be mounted on the robot for weight and size. I suppose you can (for this year only) have bumpers on moveable parts that retract the bumpers into the robot for determining the TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION. Just as in the past, if you have multiple devices that can be used on your robot, all mechanisms must be weighed together, and the overall size will need to be determined for each configuration under R4. The change in the bumper rules applies to this season. There is no telling what next season will bring.

Al,

R3 allows for minor disassembly to be made to get the robot into its transportation configuration. This would allow them to take the bumpers off and place them somewhere on the robot inside the size constraints. Then when they get on the field they would be allowed to reattach them prior to the match.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

John and Rich,
It is my understanding, that bumpers, if used, are part of the robot, just like an arm, a pickup device or the control system. That means that the bumpers are not considered separate of the ROBOT and all rules apply. As such, the bumpers need to be mounted on the robot for weight and size. I suppose you can (for this year only) have bumpers on moveable parts that retract the bumpers into the robot for determining the TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION. Just as in the past, if you have multiple devices that can be used on your robot, all mechanisms must be weighed together, and the overall size will need to be determined for each configuration under R4. The change in the bumper rules applies to this season. There is no telling what next season will bring.

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

Al,

R3 allows for minor disassembly to be made to get the robot into its transportation configuration. This would allow them to take the bumpers off and place them somewhere on the robot inside the size constraints. Then when they get on the field they would be allowed to reattach them prior to the match.

I'm very confused here. On one hand we have the game manual saying that we're allowed to perform minor disassmembly to fit into the Transportation Configuration, while on the other hand the Chief Robot Inspector for FIRST is saying that it's illegal. Normally I'd just go with the manual, but as I've been told many times on this forum the Lead Robot Inspector is the final authority at events. If there's been a rule change from what's written in the manual to disallow minor disassembly I'd like to know as soon as possible and I also would like to know why this hasn't been addressed in a Team Update.

[jvriezen]

I can't see how the GDC could suddenly declare the optional non defined bumpers to be required to be attached AND within the Transport Config at this point. I suspect a fair number of teams have quick attach/detach bumpers outside the TC that might also have integrated into them other critical mechanisms/purposes.

But I'm guessing since Al is in contact with headquarters, we'll see something about it either way on Tuesday or Friday, if not before from Al on this thread.

[magnets]

Originally Posted by Karthik

I'm very confused here. On one hand we have the game manual saying that we're allowed to perform minor disassmembly to fit into the Transportation Configuration, while on the other hand the Chief Robot Inspector for FIRST is saying that it's illegal. Normally I'd just go with the manual, but as I've been told many times on this forum the Lead Robot Inspector is the final authority at events. If there's been a rule change from what's written in the manual to disallow minor disassembly I'd like to know as soon as possible and I also would like to know why this hasn't been addressed in a Team Update.

I have a really hard time believing that minor disassembly/assembly when on the field will be made illegal. My team, and many others (likely including yours) plan to take advantage of this unique rule this year, and have spent money/time designing and building robots that take require assembly on the field. I wouldn't say our whole strategy revolves on being able to manually install a mechanism that's considerably larger than the transport configuration, but we've spent over half our robot budget/time working on it.

We have also come in a little bit underweight, so we do plan on removable bumpers this year that are bungeed to the elevator tower when not in use, and dropped into place when the robot's on the field.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Karthik

I'm very confused here. On one hand we have the game manual saying that we're allowed to perform minor disassmembly to fit into the Transportation Configuration, while on the other hand the Chief Robot Inspector for FIRST is saying that it's illegal. Normally I'd just go with the manual, but as I've been told many times on this forum the Lead Robot Inspector is the final authority at events. If there's been a rule change from what's written in the manual to disallow minor disassembly I'd like to know as soon as possible and I also would like to know why this hasn't been addressed in a Team Update.

I agree with Karthik. No inspector has the authority to override the Manual.*

Let me put it this way: Right now, my team is considering pinning an item or two onto our robot. Push item onto robot, push pin in, compete, remove pin, remove item and stick in robot, away we go. If minor disassembly is not allowed, we will have to add or modify a full subsystem to accomplish the same task. In one week. It would have been nice to know this, say, two weeks ago.

I also agree that we'll probably hear back either from Al or from an Update very shortly.

*If an inspector (or ref, or field staff) does override the Manual, we can usually expect a blog post in apology if it's anything like a major incident, and a Q&A clarifying if it's not a major incident.