So, today I had a package at my door...

[Oblarg]

...and, behold, it was none other than the Bimba cylinders we had ordered with our PDV in the first week of build season.

Honestly, I realize that this stuff is free, and I'm thankful for the generous donation, but "better late than never" doesn't ring quite true when "late" ends up being "two weeks after stop build day."

We're fortunate in that we ended up not needing them, but I think it very likely that delays like this could really wreck a season for a low-resource team. Any ideas for things FIRST could do to ensure they don't include PDVs for things that can't realistically be shipped in time for teams to use them?

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

...and, behold, it was none other than the Bimba cylinders we had ordered with our PDV in the first week of build season.

Honestly, I realize that this stuff is free, and I'm thankful for the generous donation, but "better late than never" doesn't ring quite true when "late" ends up being "two weeks after stop build day."

We're fortunate in that we ended up not needing them, but I think it very likely that delays like this could really wreck a season for a low-resource team. Any ideas for things FIRST could do to ensure they don't include PDVs for things that can't realistically be shipped in time for teams to use them?

"My free stuff came late... Nobody should have free stuff"

[s_forbes]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

"My free stuff came late... Nobody should have free stuff"

Technically, the kit of parts costs more than $0.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

"My free stuff came late... Nobody should have free stuff"

Its tough on low resource teams who rely on the KOP and PDV more heavily. I know in our history one year we needed to switch to different wheels on our robot but honestly couldn't afford them so one of the mentors had to foot the bill.

Most teams don't have the luxury of being able to just order what they need when they need it and bypass slower turn around from companies like Bimba.

I agree free stuff is free stuff but it does put teams in a pickle who need those parts.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

Its tough on low resource teams who rely on the KOP and PDV more heavily. I know in our history one year we needed to switch to different wheels on our robot but honestly couldn't afford them so one of the mentors had to foot the bill.

Most teams don't have the luxury of being able to just order what they need when they need it and bypass slower turn around from companies like Bimba.

I agree free stuff is free stuff but it does put teams in a pickle who need those parts.

Free stuff that arrives "late" is better than no free stuff at all.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Free stuff that arrives "late" is better than no free stuff at all.

Not when you are a first year team and have no knowledge of Bimbas history of late shipments.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

Not when you are a first year team and have no knowledge of Bimbas history of late shipments.

I think this is really the point. No one's saying "take your ball and go home", just that it'd be good to have clear disclaimers/historical data especially if estimated ship dates aren't available. Can we facilitate doing this for FIRST in a place where rookies are likely to see it?

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Siri

I think this is really the point. No one's saying "take your ball and go home", just that it'd be good to have clear disclaimers/historical data especially if estimated ship dates aren't available. Can we facilitate doing this for FIRST in a place where rookies are likely to see it?

^ Exactly

For a new team free stuff is a lifeline and not getting it when you need it is tough. Last year when Vex was OOS on a lot I know many veteran teams changed gears or were stuck waiting for their parts to arrive.

I think it would be really cool if veteran members of FRC could come together and make an informative video series/website to share knowledge and advice for rookie/young teams that hopefully has the quality that FIRST can point rookies to and help them get off the ground. Its little things like this (sharing common knowledge we learn our first few years) that could really change how young teams continue in FRC, lower the dropout rate, and increase the quality of teams.

Imagine 1114's Kitbot on Steroids but a much broader width to encompass more aspects of how a team runs.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

...and, behold, it was none other than the Bimba cylinders we had ordered with our PDV in the first week of build season.

Honestly, I realize that this stuff is free, and I'm thankful for the generous donation, but "better late than never" doesn't ring quite true when "late" ends up being "two weeks after stop build day."

We're fortunate in that we ended up not needing them, but I think it very likely that delays like this could really wreck a season for a low-resource team. Any ideas for things FIRST could do to ensure they don't include PDVs for things that can't realistically be shipped in time for teams to use them?

Do you want FIRST to decline vendors who offer to give them massive amounts of free product? You can get at least $250 in free cylinders (based on McMaster prices). At almost 3000 teams, that's close to $750,000 in free product they are potentially offering each year.

Maybe they could include a warning that there is potentially extended leadtime, but it would be foolish for FIRST to say "Thanks, but no thanks". Especially to a company that has been a sponsor for something like 15 years in Bimba.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by Cory

Maybe they could include a warning that there is potentially extended leadtime, but it would be foolish for FIRST to say "Thanks, but no thanks". Especially to a company that has been a sponsor for something like 15 years in Bimba.

This would be a good start. I was thinking more along the lines of having PDVs for things which are not guaranteed to ship in a reasonable time-frame be separate entirely and specified as such.

I am not suggesting that FIRST turn down all offers that they're not sure will be shipped in time. But there should be something in place to prevent stuff like this from biting teams who plan around PDV parts. There was basically no indication anywhere that BIMBA was running behind schedule and that the parts would not arrive in a reasonable time frame. That should not happen.

[asid61]

I think it's a little misleading for newer teams who don't realize the lead time. I love the free stuff, but it would be nice to inform newer teams of this sort of thing.
We got our cylinders in I think 3 weeks? Not too long.

[Anupam Goli]

This is why we are getting our pneumatics from Automation Direct now.

[ay2b]

Bimba cylinders are tricky because when you order you need to look carefully to see if the items are "in stock" or not. They will happily sell (or give via PDV) any size you request, but if the size you order is not in stock, it's probably because it's a custom size, and so you have to wait for it to be made.

[audietron]

Like Cory said maybe they could put a warning on them to let teams know they may not get them in time. but for some teams it is easier to buy 2 from bimba and 2 from Mcmaster or Automation direct (assuming you need a pair for practice robot and real robot).
If you find your self not needing Cylinders one year just buy a few sizes you don't already have for prototyping or a future robot.

[Ozuru]

We also had an issue with delays this year...our "overnighted" items became an "over-2-weeks" order.