alliances selection

[Spartan710]

I was wondering what teams would rather choose a team that puts up two six stacks and bin 75% of the time or a team the puts up three stacks of five with two bins third if it is available 97% of the time. The reason I am asking this is we are thinking about changing our robot and wondering if it is worth losing our consistency . Thanks for the help.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by Spartan710

I was wondering what teams would rather choose a team that puts up two six stacks and bin 75% of the time or a team the puts up three stacks of five with two bins third if it is available 97% of the time. The reason I am asking this is we are thinking about changing our robot and wondering if it is worth losing our consistency . Thanks for the help.

Why do you think you'll only be able to do 2 stacks of 6 when you can do 3 stacks of 5 already? What would slow you down that much when adding the 6th tote?

[c.shu]

In my opinion you have to look at the point values here. Both scenarios you are scoring a similar amount of points if all goes well. So then I factor in consistency.

2 stacks of 6 w/ bin (42 pts); 75% of the time:
(42 + 42) * 0.75 = 63

2 stacks of 5 w/bin (36) and 1 stack of 5 w/o bin (10); 97% of the time:
(36 + 36 +10) * 0.97 = 79.54

I will leave it up to you to decide if those extra 2 points for 6 stacks is worth losing the consistency.

[SoccerTaco]

Consistency is huge. When we are an alliance captain, we place great value on a team that performs consistently.

That said, at Champs, I think consistent 42 point stacks are going to be of value. There are limited game pieces. If each alliance gets 2 containers from the step, they will both need to milk as many points out of those as they possibly can. Stacks that are not noodled and are not 6 high are points that are hard to make up.

Of course if one side gets all of the step containers it is pretty much just game over...

[Spartan710]

With 6 our claw to pick up bins has to be right at the bottom of the bin so it would take longer to pick it up. Also the bin is not as secure when we pick it up so we would have to move slower.

[RonnieS]

When it comes down to finals play at district champs, I do not believe that only putting 5 totes under that bin is going to win it for you. If your goal is to just get deep and not win then 3 stacks of 5 with a bin and noodle will still be a valuable pick and stand out. We did 3 stacks of 5 and did so knowing that's all we needed to win, in a game where you are limited on the amount of containers you have access to (sometimes increased by a teams ability to grab more in auto), those 6 stacks are golden.

-Ronnie

[Boltman]

The best strategy IMO is easily more stacks (as tall as possible 5 is probably sweet spot if you have most of the RCs) with the number matching RCs you can obtain after that just score totes in any fashion possible...if pushing is faster do that. There are bots that can help us as an alliance do just that and help us win San Diego. Our strategy is to form an alliance have in Eliminations....that allows for 5 to 7 topped stacks (yes four RCs is possible with some bots paired with us)..if we can form those alliances, I believe.

Actually its the most efficient stack size for your selected alliance and having more RCs means you can quickly at the end build some slightly shorter as time expires all get multiplied by 6 per level... do not waste any RCs and top every sized stack. Best of luck finding your dream alliance. I visualize what we need to do.

[Spartan710]

Thanks for your help. I also look at simbotics and they put 4 six stacks but with no noodle most of the time which is only 36 points which is the same as us doing 2 to 3 5 stacks with bin and noodle.

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by Spartan710

Thanks for your help. I also look at simbotics and they put 4 six stacks but with no noodle most of the time which is only 36 points which is the same as us doing 2 to 3 5 stacks with bin and noodle.

Any way for you (or your alliance) to grab RC's of wall? You are going to need 2 to have a better shot at winning. Even in San Diego which is relatively weak competition with so many young bot teams. I still see at least three alliances forming that have potential to do above 150...similar to Ventura where 207 was posted. Ventura was more stacked but San Diego has at least three solid alliances that can form based on my scouting. I have a # we need to reach to win it in my head and its above 150 and below 200. We were very fortunate to have alliance partners that cheescaked us...we will have that dual can burgling for San Diego.

36x3 = for your five stack +RC and noodle =108 seems to me you need at least one more topped stack to have a shot at winning.

150 is the baseline for most winning alliances that want a good chance....also north of 200+ should be your potential perfect game ceiling.

In both SD and Ventura there were at least 4 alliances that could can-burgal most two RCs

Its all about the wall RCs in Weeks 5 and 6 teams are gearing up for St Louis.

Let me ask what do you do well?

Overall, team 74 had an average qualification score of 82.03 and an average playoff score of 108.83 in 2015.

Compare to us in playoffs (while we were figuring arm out and it only worked in our two last matches)...

Overall, team 5137 had an average qual score of 66.00* and an average playoff score of 132.60 (already highest going into SD) in 2015
*The reason we were only 66 is we had to totally reconfigure our drive station from two drivers halfway through first day...to one to try to win in faster decision making. Otherwise we would be near you. We hope to average more now that all kinks are worked out. They did not listen to me and wanted two drivers...that was not good for our design..we fixed that. Thankfully.

Now that arms are working 150 is our base in a full Regional with them. We lost entry into Finals where we had a great shot by then by 2 QA points and would have knocked out the #1 alliance made of #1 and #2 bots. All because of dual wall grab and strong alliance partners 696 and 1836..we beat #1 Twice

Your range is 140 High in Quals to 0 low with 82 average...playoffs better 108 avg. That's your expected score range.
Pretty sure you will have better bots to pair with but how are you going to get to above 150 for playoff average I saw you can do 170 but how consistently?

A: Rcs (so look to pair with an RC grabber)


110 QA was my guess with you strategy, i was close..but again I have been eyes on bot scouting since week 1.

I can tell you are mainly a topper from your stats (which is fine)....so finding fast stackers and those that can gain an extra RC or 2 would up all your already good stats...you would be top 7 on my list in San Diego... without RC grab....with RC grab in top 3 just ahead of us basing it on what it did us. If you can't do it..find it. Your are top bot go pair with a grabber.

[Boltman]

FYI 1114:

Overall, team 1114 had an average qual score of 165.83 and an average playoff score of 192.71 in 2015.

Impressive! They are my favorite to win it all

[jlmcmchl]

Originally Posted by Spartan710

Thanks for your help. I also look at simbotics and they put 4 six stacks but with no noodle most of the time which is only 36 points which is the same as us doing 2 to 3 5 stacks with bin and noodle.

Actually, you're about 36-72 points off.
Each 5-stack with bin and noodle puts 36 points on the board.
If simbotics is putting up 4 stacks of 6, noodle-lacking (also worth 36 pts), you need to match them with 4 stacks of your own.

Equivalently, you could score:

• 3 6-stacks, 3 RCs, 3 noodles (Still an 18 point defecit)
• 4 5-stacks, 4 RCs, 4 noodles
• 5 5-stacks, 5 RCs, 4 noodles.
• 6 4-stacks, 6 RCs, no noodles.
• 7 3-stacks, 7 RCs, 3 noodles.

But all of that would only cover what you're saying 1114 can do.

[RonnieS]

Originally Posted by jlmcmchl

Actually, you're about 36-72 points off.
Each 5-stack with bin and noodle puts 36 points on the board.
If simbotics is putting up 4 stacks of 6, noodle-lacking (also worth 36 pts), you need to match them with 4 stacks of your own.

Equivalently, you could score:

• 3 6-stacks, 3 RCs, 3 noodles (Still an 18 point defecit)
• 4 5-stacks, 4 RCs, 4 noodles
• 5 5-stacks, 5 RCs, 4 noodles.
• 6 4-stacks, 6 RCs, no noodles.
• 7 3-stacks, 7 RCs, 3 noodles.

But all of that would only cover what you're saying 1114 can do.

This also is assuming that 1114 or any team that can use all three cans gets more from the middle, so far 1114 is not the fastest but I am assuming they will make it faster. Just notice that a BIG if is the cans. There will be a fair amount of teams that will figure out how to do multiple stacks with cans by worlds, control your scoring by taking those middle bins. (Put some time into middle can grabbers, they are needed from here on out).
-Ronnie

[Spartan710]

I didn't mean we are the same as 1114 i meant that they put 36pt. stacks and so do we. It is easier for us to put up 3 five stacks than 2 six stacks. Also we are more consistent with 5 stacks. When we are paired up with good bots we can put up high scores. I have seen a lot of 6 stackers be very inconsistent. A lot of things falling.

[jlmcmchl]

Originally Posted by Ronnie314

This also is assuming that 1114 or any team that can use all three cans gets more from the middle, so far 1114 is not the fastest but I am assuming they will make it faster. Just notice that a BIG if is the cans. There will be a fair amount of teams that will figure out how to do multiple stacks with cans by worlds, control your scoring by taking those middle bins. (Put some time into middle can grabbers, they are needed from here on out).
-Ronnie

I would expect so too, but we won't know until we see them again. Absolutely, I've seen cans decide matches. At the finals in livonia, the finalist alliance was effectively barred from scoring enough points when 548 beat them to the middle cans. This and next saturday are going to be great to watch for exactly these sort of matches.

Originally Posted by Spartan710

I didn't mean we are the same as 1114 i meant that they put 36pt. stacks and so do we. It is easier for us to put up 3 five stacks than 2 six stacks. Also we are more consistent with 5 stacks. When we are paired up with good bots we can put up high scores. I have seen a lot of 6 stackers be very inconsistent. A lot of things falling.

Right, and that's pretty true across the board. The defining part of 1114 is looking like Mr Krabs their speed across the field and in the landfill. If teams can begin to match that, whether it be by cycle time at the HP or by controlling the step, 1114 isn't so scary.

I've seen many more stacks fall post placement than in transit, and not necessarily caused by the stacker. Consider their perspective: Spend an extra 3-4 seconds, and score 2-6+ more points. In many cases, those extra points make all the difference, and especially in eliminations.

[MStump]

Consistency is key. In my opinion, during alliance selections teams will be more likely to pick you if they know you are consistent at what you do. They like to know EXACTLY what your capabilities are. Having an alliance partner who can unreliably make a six stack is probably not as good as one who can consistently do five stacks.