2015 Champs Discussion

[Ginger Power]

Since the other thread I started was blown up by discussion about strategies, thoughts, question etc. involving the 2015 Championship I figured I'd start a thread for that specific purpose. Hopefully a mod can move that great discussion to this thread.

[EricAnderson191]

Since my questions make more sense here, I copied them over:

What do you think the expansion to 8 divisions does to the alliance choosing process.

Also, if I was in charge of division placement I would work hard to keep the powerhouse teams spread out to avoid say 254 and 1114 having a chance to work together.

Are division placements random?

Eric

[PVCpirate]

I'm not sure how the divisions are done exactly. I'm remembering random with weighting based on team age, so each division has about the same number of rookies, second year teams, etc, but I'm not totally sure. I'm reasonably sure they don't do things like "these are the 5 best robots, let's make sure they're in different divisions" though.

[Christopher149]

According to the FRC Blog (I don't have the post handy), at least 2014 CMP had divisions sorted out by spreading the rookies out evenly, and then assigning teams in order that they qualified.

[tindleroot]

Originally Posted by Christopher149

According to the FRC Blog (I don't have the post handy), at least 2014 CMP had divisions sorted out by spreading the rookies out evenly, and then assigning teams in order that they qualified.

I believe it was the order that teams registered, but that is nearly the same thing. However, last year's Curie division was loaded with big-name teams, including 5 of the 7 three-event winners (there are way more than 7 this year, though).

[BBray_T1296]

It is all about the cans. Whoever gets the cans wins.

It doesn't matter if 254, 1114 and 148 end up on an alliance if they lose the can battles it makes almost no difference whether they stack every other tote in the Dome.

[xman206]

In the PNW District Champs, it all came down to who got the cans from the middle step in auto. 1983 was seeded 3rd and we chose 2930 because they had a wicked fast can grabber (I like to call it a sniper) and we also chose 955 because they were a stacker too. In the semifinals and finals it was the CAN WARS!!!!!! The more cans the better. The team that can stack high and has a can theft auto (autonomous can grabber) will most likely be in Einstein.

[T^2]

Not too much to discuss, really. Einstein will be decided in the first 150 milliseconds, perhaps sooner. If you get 3 of the step cans, it's impossible to lose.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by T^2

Not too much to discuss, really. Einstein will be decided in the first 150 milliseconds, perhaps sooner. If you get 3 of the step cans, it's impossible to lose.

Truth.

[GuyM142]

Originally Posted by T^2

Not too much to discuss, really. Einstein will be decided in the first 150 milliseconds, perhaps sooner. If you get 3 of the step cans, it's impossible to lose.

Though you must score all of them to guarantee your win.

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by GuyM142

Though you must score all of them to guarantee your win.

At regional competitions, this may have been tough to do. However, I think most alliances formed at championships will be able to score 5 or more cans.

[tindleroot]

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli

At regional competitions, this may have been tough to do. However, I think most alliances formed at championships will be able to score 5 or more cans.

There is still a luck factor involved, though. The #1 seed at IN State Champs was approaching a 200 match score in their second quarterfinals match when (in the last 5 seconds!) one of their alliance members accidentally knocked over two stacks of 6, topped and noodled and everything. Luckily for the alliance, they scored enough points that match to make it on to semifinals by a slim margin, and they got over that mistake and went on to win the whole thing.

Teams should be aware that mistakes/problems can happen even when you least expect them, and you should never take anything for granted, especially in matches as close as Einstein will be.

[Kevin Leonard]

Originally Posted by GuyM142

Though you must score all of them to guarantee your win.

Realistically, if you steal 3 cans, all you need to do to win 90% of matches would be 5 stacks. Your opponents are limited to 4 capped stacks, so unless they have some serious firepower, they're done.

[Jonathan Norris]

I've been thinking about the new eliminations format for the last couple days, the need to schedule more time for Division and Einstein eliminations has become pretty obvious (maybe we will end on time this year!), but I am worried that alliance selection on Saturday morning gives a massive advantage to the top couple seeds.

As most of you know the top couple seeded alliances are usually formed before teams line up for alliance selection, it hasn't really been an issue in the past because alliance selection usually occurs directly after the last qualification match. But at champs this year the last matches are Friday afternoon and alliance selection doesn't occur until Saturday Morning, giving the top couple seeds a massive advantage as they can form alliances Friday afternoon and start strategizing their match and picking strategy. Its usually difficult to figure alliances past the top 3-4 seeds, thus the lower seeded alliances are going to be at a major strategic disadvantage going into alliance selection.

The only possible solution I can see is a split alliance selection, where the first round of alliance selection is done at the end of the day on Friday, and the other two rounds are done on Saturday morning (mainly to make sure teams don't pack up and leave on Friday??...).

[Alex2614]

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard

Realistically, if you steal 3 cans, all you need to do to win 90% of matches would be 5 stacks. Your opponents are limited to 4 capped stacks, so unless they have some serious firepower, they're done.

Are you talking qualifications or playoffs? In qualifications, it won't hurt your so-called "opponents" all that much, but will help you tremendously. In playoffs it is a different story.