Why Do Teams Succeed

[staplemonx]

Recently the team was asked to identify why teams fold by our county school board. We asked CD to help us answer their question and we collected a lot of good data. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...hreadid=139082

While we were writing up a blog post (http://team1389.com/why-do-frc-teams-fold/) summarizing everything we had learned about why teams fail, we started to ask ourselves why do teams like 148, 254, 118, 1114 and others achieve such greatness year over year? What are they doing that makes them great?

So we figured we would ask CD to weigh in again. What makes a Team extremely successful? Please pick the top 2 or 3 survey options or add a comment if you have thought on the topic that aren't captured in the survey. Thanks for your time

[Koko Ed]

I don't see any choices for preparation or dedication. Those take a team a whole lot further than any of those things listed.
I see alot of teams at alot of competitions both good and bad and what stands out to me is the great teams have a plan and are willing, ready and able to execute it. The bad teams are disorganized and disinterested.

[Darkseer54]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

I don't see any choices for preparation or dedication. Those take a team a whole lot further than any of those things listed.
I see alot of teams at alot of competitions both good and bad and what stands out to me is the great teams have a plan and are willing, ready and able to execute it. The bad teams are disorganized and disinterested.

I'd say that Preparation and Dedication earn teams every one of the things listed. Having a few students who are dedicated will inspire mentors to dedicate their time and effort to assist them achieve their goals, and these mentors will in turn inspire more students to be dedicated. Having students and mentors who are willing to learn and work to succeed is what allows them to succeed.

EDIT: Gonna add a bit more to this as I have more time now. One thing I have noticed over the past few years is that the teams that succeed on a large level do is take the competition aspect extremely seriously. As 254 stated (don't remember where), they (and all these successful teams) strive to be in the top 1% of all FRC teams. These teams work to win, and are driven to do so. This drive is what makes them design, evaluate, and redesign aspects of their robot. As Andrew Lawrence said "The minute you get a functioning mechanism start working on a better one." Teams who have succeeded in the past (especially this year), lived by this motto, and use it to make themselves better. The second that a "powerhouse team" gets one step ahead of the competition, they immediately focus on taking the next 2 steps, because they know that the teams behind them won't be behind them for long.

[Caleb Sykes]

From what I have seen, the mentors and students on "high-quality" teams spend 20+ hours per week, in and out of build season, dedicated to robotics. The "powerhouse" teams have students and mentors who spend 40+ hours per week dedicated to robotics.

Teams that are willing to put in this much effort have almost no difficulty achieving anything/everything on that list.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by staplemonx

we started to ask ourselves why do teams like 148, 254, 118, 1114 and others achieve such greatness year over year? What are they doing that makes them great?

Culture, leadership, passion.

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Culture, leadership, passion.

How do you get those things?

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by JVN

How do you get those things?

If I had an easy answer to that question, I'd be shouting it from the rooftops.

On culture and leadership:

The best I can do is quote from a private message exchange I had with another mentor the other day:

I know it sounds like a buzzword, but so much of this comes down to team culture. Whenever anyone asks me how 1114 has been able to maintain our consistent level of success, I always say it's a result of a culture of dedication to success. New members immediately sense the culture and either embrace it and adapt, or slowly lose interest. There isn't much middle ground. Everyone gives their best effort because no one wants to let anyone down.

Now how does one establish that culture? That's a really good question that I don't have a particularly good answer for. I think a lot of it comes down to having strong, charismatic leaders who people gravitate towards. This includes both adult and student leaders. On a lot of FRC teams you get people thrust into leadership roles because of their strong technical abilities, but they lack the ability to motivate people. I think this is where culture building fails.

Or these posts from myself and Mr. Forbes

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...&postcount=160

On passion: Passion can be contagious, when paired with the right culture and leadership.

I understand that these answers might sound like a cop out, but at it's core the answers are esoteric. For those trying to replicate these cultures that breed success, I think best plan of action is to get people who are passionate about FIRST involved with your team, who also happen to be great leaders. Easier said than done? Yup.

[gblake]

What is success?

Is it a victory on the field? Is it a trophy or banner?

Is it doubling the number of students (compared to the past for the area served by the team) who choose a STEM vocation after grade school?

Is it evolving into a K-12 spectrum of diverse STEM programs that involves 20% of the area's students, at one time or another, in a non-trivial, out-of-class, STEM activity (biology, meteorology, FLL, VIQ, FTC, VRC, FRC, BEST, AUSV, SeaPerch, Cyber Defense, rocketry/drones, Eco/Solar House, ...)?

Is it simply percolating along, annually involving 5% of a school in an inspirational STEM activity, while staying on budget and on schedule?

Is it playing a key role in convincing families and businesses that they want to move into an area because children will get a good education there?

What is success for FRC???

What does your School Board think success is?

Is it reminding the community to re-elect the school board, because the board "gets it"?

Blake
PS: If it all gets too complicated, just return to the basics. Expose as many *students* as you can, to fun opportunities, that didn't exist for *them* before the team(s) existed.

[tindleroot]

Originally Posted by gblake

What is success?

Sounds like you may be beating your own dead horse here - I think it's pretty clear what form of success the thread is discussing.

[Kevin Leonard]

Originally Posted by tindleroot

Sounds like you may be beating your own dead horse here - I think it's pretty clear what form of success the thread is discussing.

I don't necessarily agree. I think the OP may be referencing on-field success, but all Blake is pointing out is that success can be defined in many different ways and that focusing on on-field success isn't always the best option for every team.

I'd also argue that all of the teams the OP listed are perennially successful both on and off the field, and that both are noble goals.

Back to the OP's question though, there are incredibly successful teams that satisfy a ton of the conditions listed in your poll.
973 has less than 20 students if I recall, while 20 has over 100. Both teams can be said to have had great, incredibly successful seasons the past 4 years.
There are successful teams with a ton of resources and successful teams with significantly less resources. 5254 had an incredibly successful season this past year, and all we have is a chopsaw and the ability to buy VexPro parts, something any team should be able to do.

The ingredients for repeated success is less about the number of students and the amount of resources, but more about the dedication and drive than anything else.
One of the things about 5254 that has made us successful in 2015 is our head mentor, Roy Westwater. He pushes the team like a sports coach. He cares if we win or lose, and he wants every student on the team to feel like that too. He's established a certain culture in the past two seasons that not only generates success from within, but it also attracts others who have the same kind of drive.

Once a certain culture on a team is established, it's difficult to change- whether that be for the better or for the worse.

When I joined Team 20 my freshman year of high school in 2011, we were in the midst of a culture change brought about by a long-time mentor leaving the team. Between 2011 and 2013 the team changed dramatically, and you could see the results on the field. In 2011 we were the last overall selection at the BAE Granite State Regional. In 2013 we seeded 1st and 2nd at our regionals, winning one and losing in the finals at the other. That's the type of culture change that's difficult to bring about. Our head mentor on Team 20, Rose Barra, was a major catalyst for that change, along with others on 20 that really stepped up and helped put our priorities in line.

This ended up being a fairly long post.
In summary: success can be defined multiple ways, passion and drive do more than anything else to drive success, and culture is hard to change once it's established.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by tindleroot

Sounds like you may be beating your own dead horse here - I think it's pretty clear what form of success the thread is discussing.

Maybe I'm thinking more about what a School Board is interested in hearing than the OP was when they wrote their post.

I don't say that to attack the OP, or their immediate intention, but to instead just get them to think twice about whether they are asking the right question.

School Boards often define success differently than individual teams do...

If the OP isn't interested in my thoughts, they can easily ignore them.

Blake

[staplemonx]

Originally Posted by gblake

If the OP isn't interested in my thoughts, they can easily ignore them.

We are interested in any and every take on the question.

[mrnoble]

Someday I'd like to visit one of the teams listed, to see if spending time with them would give any extra insight. Until I get that chance, I think I agree with Karthik. What success 1339 has had has been largely due to a passion to see students do well in one of the best experiences available at the high school level. That led (after years of floundering) to finding resources (like CD), and to better organization, and to hard work. The passion has grown and spread since 2012 and we've had several good years. Each year we are working harder and earlier in the year, and I fully expect that this year's crew will have a fantastic season as a result of the time, passion and effort they are putting in right now. I know we aren't on anyone's radar, but I'm thrilled with what our team has made possible for our students.

[GeeTwo]

My first thought on reading OP was to essentially write gblake's post above. +1!

Also, as I posted earlier this afternoon on the "fold" thread:

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

..inspired, educated alumni change the world.

We won our first Blue Banner at Bayou this year. I had dyed my beard green, yelled myself hoarse, and was every bit as thrilled as I was when the Pirates won the World Series in 1971 and 1979 or when the Saints won the Super Bowl at the end of the 2008 season, and even more proud as I had helped it happen. However, the real tug on the heartstrings came at the next team meeting. While we knew that we had plenty of work to do, we gave the students the floor to express what the team meant to them, fully aware that it might take hours. We almost got some "work" done, but at the last call, J. took the offer. He didn't settle for the floor, but the little guy stood on a table. I had known J. for at least four years already, as his family attended my church. Four years ago, J. was painfully introverted. PAINFULLY. Gixxy helped him through an out-of-state mission trip, and then FRC brought him out of his shell more recently. The team was a key part of FIXING A PERSON. That's success in my book that goes way, way beyond a blue banner. J's story was followed by at least a dozen more (all delivered while standing on the table, now that the precedent was established). Every one of them was pushed from a life of mediocrity or insignificance towards a life helping people live better lives. A dozen such stories constitutes unqualified team success in my book.
I'm not going to claim that we've achieved the same level of success as 148, 254, 118, or 1114, but I also know that no one will ever convince me that I was wasting my time; that's unqualified success by my criteria.
I have not answered the poll, as I do not understand its criteria.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by gblake

Maybe I'm thinking more about what a School Board is interested in hearing than the OP was when they wrote their post.

I don't say that to attack the OP, or their immediate intention, but to instead just get them to think twice about whether they are asking the right question.

School Boards often define success differently than individual teams do...

If the OP isn't interested in my thoughts, they can easily ignore them.

Blake

I'm glad that you and many others (presuming) have faith in your respective School Boards. In our State, almost all of them have never been in education and/or attended public schools, and it shows.
Sometimes, just sometimes, school boards can outline their definition of success differently than what teachers, an individual school, and their respective community thinks. The culture and beliefs of our program are in line with our school community, IMO.