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Unread 21-02-2016, 18:38
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Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

This particular question has been debated by multiple LRI's and I've heard different opinions. Are these bumpers legal:
Imgur Link

If you look at R28:
Quote:
Team numbers must be displayed and positioned on the BUMPERS such that an observer walking
around the perimeter of the ROBOT can unambiguously tell the Team’s number from any point of
view and meet the following additional criteria:

A. consist of numerals at least 4 in. high, at least ½ in. in stroke width, and be either white in
color or outlined in white

B. must not wrap around sharp corners (less than 160 degrees) of the FRAME PERIMETER
The key word is "numerals" in bullet point A. If you look at the dictionary definition: Merriam-Webster
Dictionary.com
Oxford Dictionary

The logo is clearly a numeral by the dictionary definition, and it conveys the number 4607 unambiguously. So we don't have a problem right? By the letter of the law we should be legal, and I would love to hear the opinion of Big Al.

Edit: Changed massive picture to imgur link.

Last edited by Ginger Power : 21-02-2016 at 20:20.
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Unread 21-02-2016, 18:42
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Re: Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

Here's an Imgur link for those of us that don't have a bajillion pixels.
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Unread 21-02-2016, 18:44
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Re: Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Tremblay View Post
Here's an Imgur link for those of us that don't have a bajillion pixels.
Thanks Ty! Uploading from my phone.
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Unread 21-02-2016, 18:47
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Re: Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

Do you want to have hassles at robot inspection? if so, leave them as they are, they look neat. If you just want to breeze through inspection, fix the numbers.
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Unread 21-02-2016, 18:49
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Re: Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

Questions, no hassles. The LRIs are really good where we are in MN. But they were concerned.
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Unread 21-02-2016, 18:49
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Re: Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

I like the stylish look with the 0 and team name
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Unread 21-02-2016, 18:50
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Re: Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

If you leave them as they are, bring some corndogs for the RIs.
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Unread 21-02-2016, 18:51
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Re: Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

I'm sorry but at first glance I did not unambiguously see that as a zero. I thought your number was 467.

If I can't tell, can the scouters from other teams tell? "Hey, I never saw 4607 play today, so I don't have any data on them. Did they not show up?"
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Unread 21-02-2016, 18:53
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Re: Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryVoshol View Post
I'm sorry but at first glance I did not unambiguously see that as a zero. I thought your number was 467.

If I can't tell, can the scouters from other teams tell? "Hey, I never saw 4607 play today, so I don't have any data on them. Did they not show up?"
I have to say that I agree with Gary.... initially thought you were 467
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Unread 21-02-2016, 18:56
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Re: Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger Power View Post
The logo is clearly a numeral by the dictionary definition, ...
(emphasis mine)

I'm sorry but I agree with Gary. If I were your robot inspector, I would ask the LRI for a ruling on whether the CIS logo is considered a numeral.
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Unread 21-02-2016, 19:09
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Re: Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Wallace View Post
(emphasis mine)

I'm sorry but I agree with Gary. If I were your robot inspector, I would ask the LRI for a ruling on whether the CIS logo is considered a numeral.
A numeral is any symbol that represents a number. It is most definitely a numeral. The only question is whether it's ambiguous or not. The only opinion that matters is Big Al at this point because the LRI at our events has already deferred to him. I'm also a robot inspector so I know the process. It's interesting hear the opinions from everybody.

I've talked to numerous teams that have seen our bumpers and want to do the same with their logos. The ruling here does set a precedent, and is important that we clarify it now.
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Unread 21-02-2016, 19:40
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Re: Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by R27
Each ROBOT must be able to display Red or Blue BUMPERS to match their ALLIANCE color, as assigned in the MATCH schedule distributed at the event (reference Section 5 (5.1.1 MATCH Schedules)). BUMPER Markings visible when installed on the ROBOT, other than those explicitly allowed per R21-D or required per R28, are prohibited.
So, is the "CIS" part of the numbers, or and additional marking?

Edit: sniped by bachster
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Unread 22-02-2016, 05:08
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Re: Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger Power View Post
A numeral is any symbol that represents a number. It is most definitely a numeral. The only question is whether it's ambiguous or not. The only opinion that matters is Big Al at this point because the LRI at our events has already deferred to him. I'm also a robot inspector so I know the process. It's interesting hear the opinions from everybody.

I've talked to numerous teams that have seen our bumpers and want to do the same with their logos. The ruling here does set a precedent, and is important that we clarify it now.
If you have to look up definitions of words to try to justify the legality, I'd walk away from the design. There are many things that we have to deal with to get a working robot on the field. A lengthy discussion about whether or not bumper numbers are legal really shouldn't be one of the issues. (Even though it looks neat).
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Unread 22-02-2016, 13:21
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Re: Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger Power View Post
I've talked to numerous teams that have seen our bumpers and want to do the same with their logos. The ruling here does set a precedent, and is important that we clarify it now.

I want to know where the line is so I can push right up next to it without crossing.
If you truly want to determine if the bumpers are legal under the games rules, submit the question to the Q&A system. Remember, the GDC's answer is the only one that counts.
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Unread 22-02-2016, 14:16
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Re: Are these bumpers legal? (Another bumper thread)

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Originally Posted by bobl View Post
If you truly want to determine if the bumpers are legal under the games rules, submit the question to the Q&A system. Remember, the GDC's answer is the only one that counts.
Or the LRI or Head Referee's opinion at the event.
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