Transferring a boulder without a CROSSING.

[jvriezen]

In this video, the blue robot returns via the low bar to acquire another boulder, but does not fully enter the neutral zone, so the boulder is transferred without a CROSSING. Not sure if this is legal.

https://youtu.be/M-jUnsDdl5Q?list=PL...oR1yL0P& t=95

G40 A ROBOT may not cause a BOULDER to move from the NEUTRAL ZONE into the opponent’s COURTYARD unless:
A. the ROBOT contacts the BOULDER within OUTER WORKS, and
B. the ROBOT completes its CROSSING (e.g. doesn’t completely back out of the OUTER WORKS into the NEUTRAL ZONE)


40b. implies there must be a crossing, but the 'e.g' part is satisfied, since the robot reversed and continued into the courtyard.

Just wondering..

[engunneer]

in this case I would say the crossing never started, so is against the spirit of the rule. I think by the letter of the rule it could be argued either way. I suspect a Q&A should be asked about this, and that G40 would get updated.

[jvriezen]

Originally Posted by engunneer

in this case I would say the crossing never started, so is against the spirit of the rule. I think by the letter of the rule it could be argued either way. I suspect a Q&A should be asked about this, and that G40 would get updated.

Found this Q&A, where the last sentence of the A implies this is not legal:

https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Que...ossing-it-is-n

"... Contacting a BOULDER within a DEFENSE after a CROSSING has been completed requires a new CROSSING to take place."

[jvriezen]

Here is the updated video link, with the corrected starting time.

https://youtu.be/M-jUnsDdl5Q?list=PL...oR1yL0P& t=94

[catmanjake]

I would say that is not legal but would like to know what the ramifications should have been.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by jvriezen

Found this Q&A, where the last sentence of the A implies this is not legal:

https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Que...ossing-it-is-n

"... Contacting a BOULDER within a DEFENSE after a CROSSING has been completed requires a new CROSSING to take place."

FIRST really needs to either change this rule in the manual, or provide examples in the manual that clarify it. The current wording of G40 does not make it clear that this situation is illegal. Something this important should not be solely in the Q&A system.

[rich2202]

Per these Q&A's, the transfer is not legal. The ball was clearly in the Neutral Zone, G40 applies, so the Bot must also start from the NZ.

Q588 Q. G40 scenario: Robot A in the NEUTRAL ZONE passes a BOULDER to Robot B in the OUTER WORKS. Robot B controls the BOULDER in the OUTER WORKS and travels with it into the COURTYARD. Legal? Robot A would appear to have only caused the robot to travel from the NEUTRAL ZONE to the OUTER WORKS. Robot B cause it to travel from the OUTER WORKS to the COURTYARD.
2016-01-17 by FRC0057

A. As long as ROBOT B meets all of the criteria for a successful CROSSING per Section 3.1.3, and all of the criteria in G40 are met (ROBOT contacts the BOULDER in the OUTER WORKS and it also starts in the NEUTRAL ZONE and ends in their opponent's COURTYARD, i.e. CROSSED), this would be a legal movement of a BOULDER to the opponent's COURTYARD regardless of ROBOT A's involvement.

https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Que...al-robot-a-wou

Q603 Q. The response to Q588 regarding G40 answered the case where Robot B meets the criteria for a successful crossing. What if Robot B does not meet the criteria? If Robot B first encounters a boulder in the Outer Works, has it not violated G40 because it did not cause the boulder to move from the Neutral Zone, but from merely the Outer Works? Does the response depended upon which alliance caused the boulder to end up in the Outer Works?
2016-01-19 by FRC2202

A. If ROBOT B does not complete a CROSSING, then G40 has been violated. ROBOT B is the one that completes the action of the BOULDER moving from the NEUTRAL ZONE to the COURTYARD and is thus considered to be the one to have caused it.

https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Que...-boulder-in-th

[engunneer]

Originally Posted by Caleb Sykes

FIRST really needs to either change this rule in the manual, or provide examples in the manual that clarify it. The current wording of G40 does not make it clear that this situation is illegal. Something this important should not be solely in the Q&A system.

They won't put every Q&A answer the new a team update. Since it's an official source of info, you should be keeping up with Q&A.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by engunneer

They won't put every Q&A answer the new a team update. Since it's an official source of info, you should be keeping up with Q&A.

It's not me that I am concerned about, I read every Q&A. The referees and teams who don't read every Q&A are the ones I am concerned about.