Team Update 15 (2016)

[Michael Hill]

https://firstfrc.blob.core.windows.n...Updates/15.pdf

[orangemoore]

Huge changes to the low bar fabric.

Very interesting.

[Tom Line]

I can't say I'm happy at all with the prospect of flaps of material that can now enter my robot and wrap around my rotating shooter wheels. The width mitigates that somewhat, and hopefully the vinyl is of the heavier variety that doesn't fold easily. I guess we'll see if it turns out to actually be an issue or not at the competition. We'll be refitting our competition field as soon as the prints come out.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

I can't say I'm happy at all with the prospect of flaps of material that can now enter my robot and wrap around my rotating shooter wheels. The width mitigates that somewhat, and hopefully the vinyl is of the heavier variety that doesn't fold easily. I guess we'll see if it turns out to actually be an issue or not at the competition. We'll be refitting our competition field as soon as the prints come out.

Inb4 this happens 3 times at a regional and they're fresh out of replacements again.

[Anthony Galea]

If bumper fabric really worked as well as I've heard it has, why not just use bumper fabric with red on the red side and blue on the blue side? Or is that too expensive/complicated for FIRST to add? IMO it would actually do more to lend itself to looking like defenses for an alliance that way.

[ollien]

Originally Posted by 3175student17

If bumper fabric really worked as well as I've heard it has, why not just use bumper fabric with red on the red side and blue on the blue side? Or is that too expensive/complicated for FIRST to add? IMO it would actually do more to lend itself to looking like defenses for an alliance that way.

This is pure speculation, but I figure that this might work if it was planned ahead of time. However, given the rushed nature of these shipments they went with the fastest and most alternative they could find.

[Bob Steele]

I have more concern about the zip ties. It will be interesting to see how long they last. I am also concerned that the zip ties will catch on robots.

Evidently there will be no pipe on the bottom of the vinyl strips so they should swing easier than the present configuration.

I think that the pipe at the bottom was a major reason why the original design failed. The pipe would hold the fabric taught... and more easily penetrable.
If the fabric could have moved easier... I think much of the damage would not have occurred although sharp objects would still grab the fabric.

We shall see.

[IronicDeadBird]

If the intent of the fabric is to prevent teams from bowling boulders through they should just get rid of it already and add all boulders entering the field must make contact with a robot before crossing the opponents outerworks.

[Madison]

Our robot was designed with explicit features to guide the embedded pipe across the top of the machine. Thinner flaps make that design decision obsolete and puts our robot at risk of damaging the new flaps or, worse, being damaged by them.

I can't fathom how FIRST believes cable ties will withstand the rigors of competition. The sallyport, already held together in parts using cable ties, fell apart regularly last weekend.

[Ginger Power]

I'm glad to see that FIRST decided to do something about the low bar fabric. It was rough at Lake Superior. We had our very own sweatshop on the side of the field cranking out new low bar covers as fast as poorly designed robots could rip them up.

I wish FIRST would've followed Lake Superior's lead and gone with colored flaps made out of bumper material (if the bumper material needs to be rugged enough for the game, you'd think the low bar flap material would be held to the same standard).

A lot of this comes back to good inspecting as well. Robot Inspectors need to be on the lookout for anything that has even the slightest possibility of tearing the low bar fabric. I know I passed a robot that shredded a flap. I felt terrible. I walked the team back to their pit, and we came up with a solution that served it's purpose well for the rest of the event.

[Kevin Sevcik]

In other news, hey quick exhaust valves are finally legal! Finally you can have the nice crisp pneumatic actuations you've always wanted.

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by Ginger Power

I'm glad to see that FIRST decided to do something about the low bar fabric. It was rough at Lake Superior. We had our very own sweatshop on the side of the field cranking out new low bar covers as fast as poorly designed robots could rip them up.

I wish FIRST would've followed Lake Superior's lead and gone with colored flaps made out of bumper material (if the bumper material needs to be rugged enough for the game, you'd think the low bar flap material would be held to the same standard).

A lot of this comes back to good inspecting as well. Robot Inspectors need to be on the lookout for anything that has even the slightest possibility of tearing the low bar fabric. I know I passed a robot that shredded a flap. I felt terrible. I walked the team back to their pit, and we came up with a solution that served it's purpose well for the rest of the event.

THIS is a much better solution. Robots that tear fabric need to be altered so that they do not damage the field. I do think this solution will cause design problems for quite a few robots.

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by Ginger Power

I'm glad to see that FIRST decided to do something about the low bar fabric. It was rough at Lake Superior. We had our very own sweatshop on the side of the field cranking out new low bar covers as fast as poorly designed robots could rip them up.

I wish FIRST would've followed Lake Superior's lead and gone with colored flaps made out of bumper material (if the bumper material needs to be rugged enough for the game, you'd think the low bar flap material would be held to the same standard).

A lot of this comes back to good inspecting as well. Robot Inspectors need to be on the lookout for anything that has even the slightest possibility of tearing the low bar fabric. I know I passed a robot that shredded a flap. I felt terrible. I walked the team back to their pit, and we came up with a solution that served it's purpose well for the rest of the event.

Honestly, this is what I see it coming down to more than anything. R8 is there to prevent exactly the sort of tears that have been happening. Prudent inspection and a slightly tougher fabric (1000D Cordura or maybe ballistic nylon) seem likely to mitigate many of the issues experienced with the flaps, without penalizing teams for spending time to design around a now-deprecated field feature.

[Daria Wing]

I heard that there were a lot of teams who were basically shredding the fabric on the low bar so I'm glad that they fixed it, however, will this cause some complications to things on top of the robots??

[RyanShoff]

My thoughts of 4mm thick heavy plastic strips getting raked over the inside of bot, swatting the cameras twice a cycle, are getting worse or worse. If they are stiff enough, they'll form a robot check valve out of the low bar. Once you are about halfway through and just one strip falls in the bot, you probably can't back out for any reason.