Adjustable Magnetic suspension?

[christheman200]

A friend just linked me to this video on a new sort of magnet, the polymagnet, which contains custom shaped 3D printed magnetic fields.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IANBoybVApQ
Many unique behaviors can be created, such as a "spring" magnet that likes to stay at an equilibrium point above the other magnet. As well, the properties of polymagnets can change as you rotate them in relation to each other.
In theory, a set of spring polymagnets could be made that change their equilibrium point and spring constant when rotated. I propose an adjustable suspension that could be used on an FRC robot using this new tech.
What do the rest of you think about the suspension, and the potential use of polymagnets in FRC in general?

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by christheman200

which contains custom shaped 3D printed magnetic fields.

I would like to see a 3D printed magnetic field.

Sounds expensive, complex and somewhat unnecessary for FRC, but that is no good reason not to play with the technology. Not everything we do has to be FRC legal...

[christheman200]

Yeah that wording's a little weird
It's actually quite cheap! ~$3 per magnet, albeit they're relatively weak. I imagine you could have one strong enough printed for under $100.

[B95]

I watched this video an hour ago before checking CD and I am amused by the fact there is already a thread about it. Anyway, I agree that these polymagnets would definitely be useful for a suspension system not only in the FRC but in the automotive industry as this crazy tech progresses. However, I wouldn't stop at an adjustable suspension. These magnets introduce the potential to simplify all sorts of systems on a robot and even allow for previously difficult-to-accomplish ideas to be possible. Obviously these statements apply to plenty of other situations outside of FRC (these magnets are pretty revolutionary in my opinion), but nevertheless I cannot wait to see them used on a robot. Their website even notes how the magnets can "transfer torque across an air gap without physical contact," which is basically magic. I think one of the largest benefits of these new magnets over conventional ones is their increased strength, but it still may require some careful engineering to make sure the magnets don't slip.

[christheman200]

I agree entirely! This is going to be a pretty disruptive technology.
I've also thought that you could replace pneumatics with a spring magnet that has different equilibrium points, each in a different rotation configuration. Maybe also in circular tires like the eagle-360 goodyear concept?

[gblake]

Using 3D printing to deposit magnetic materials in unusual shapes does sound pretty slick, but keep your wallet in your pocket (and keep your hand on it too) whenever YouTube evangelists start pegging the hype meter.

Using magnets to transfer torque across an air gap isn't quite as old as dirt, but it's pretty darned old. When some of the magnets involved are electromagnets and the others are permanent magnets, it's a good bet that the device is an electric motor.

One old torque transfer use is stirring fluids in beakers or other containers by using a magnet outside the container to spin a magnet inside the container.

I'm definitely curious about the field strength and stability the printable material has. Strong magnets are usually brittle, not flexible/rugged. It's time to get some sleep tonight, so I'll plan to watch the video tomorrow.

Blake

[BeardyMentor]

I have worked in the 3D printing industry. I have heard about a lot of these "wonderful miracle technologies". Every time you see some thing like this, you need to look at it very critically. Always ask what this new, high tech, and likely extremely expensive, new technique actually gets you. In doing this you need to carefully define what properties are important to you in a possible solution. In this case you would have to ask what these magnets would do for you over a spring. My guess is in this case the fancy magnetic suspension would not give you any significant benefit over a traditional spring. The adjustable equilibrium point would be nice, but would such a system really be worth it for an FRC robot beyond the cool factor?

[christheman200]

Would it have an advantage over conventional suspension? Probably not. But I'm still going to go with it and see it where it goes. Who knows what interesting characteristics it could have?

[JDGallagher]

I would be curious if the benefit of a suspension system in frc would make the increased effort and weight worth it. In a game with obstacles like Stronghold or Breakaway, maybe Rebound Rumble, I could see the benefit from reducing impact to the frame, but you may also see reduced accuracy with shooters if the drive base is not at a consistent angle. I'd also like to see if you could make a magnetic suspension lighter or smaller than an adjustable traditional spring based system. Anybody know of another benefit that a suspension would give other than improving impact resistance?

[gblake]

OK I watched the video. From what I saw in the video...

It looks like they are flipping the polarity of small regions of ordinary-ish macro-scale magnets, with mm-ish levels of granularity. I suspect a similar result could be created by gluing together lot of small magnets (hexagonal bar magnets perhaps).

They aren't actually printing out magnets.

The arrangements they create don't strengthen the total field of the magnet, but they are able to concentrate the flux density in local regions (at the expense of the flux density everywhere else).

Congrats to them for creating what appears to be a macro-scale version of the magnetic medium and the read/write head of a Winchester disk (a computer hard drive).

The process, and the behaviors of the patterns they are creating are slick; and the prices of their products are low enough for Jane and Joe Doe to consider buying some to play with.

Can they really create any desire force vs distance behavior they want (in two finite-sized "magnets")? I'm not so sure physics will let them create *any* behavior I might imagine ... The YouTube guy said that, not a company rep.

Will the company be profitable? Good question. Time will tell.

Will their stuff be fun to experiment with. Definitely.

Blake