Everyone's A Winner?

[NoahB4536]

This last weekend my team competed at the Minnesota 10K lakes regional. As per usual there were lots of speakers but it seemed to me like this year they talked a lot about how everyone was a winner by just showing up to the event. Now I am not bashing the speakers, I just wanted to address an issue that has come up in other sports, which is that if competitors at an event are told that everyone is a winner it can take away some of the joy of winning and interfere with the competition aspect of coopertition. Calling everyone a winner can also make it tough for people to deal with losing, although that is mostly with younger kids. I was in the pits for some of the regional so I did not get to watch every speaker and therefore cannot attest to the extent to which this was occurring but I do believe that it is important for the FRC to not give into the concept of everyone being a winner. There are three winning teams in a regional and although that does not necessarily mean that the other teams are "losers" it does mean that the other teams can be motivated to learn and improve in their pursuit of excellence.

[Type]

Originally Posted by NoahB4536

This last weekend my team competed at the Minnesota 10K lakes regional. As per usual there were lots of speakers but it seemed to me like this year they talked a lot about how everyone was a winner by just showing up to the event. Now I am not bashing the speakers, I just wanted to address an issue that has come up in other sports, which is that if competitors at an event are told that everyone is a winner it can take away some of the joy of winning and interfere with the competition aspect of coopertition. Calling everyone a winner can also make it tough for people to deal with losing, although that is mostly with younger kids. I was in the pits for some of the regional so I did not get to watch every speaker and therefore cannot attest to the extent to which this was occurring but I do believe that it is important for the FRC to not give into the concept of everyone being a winner. There are three winning teams in a regional and although that does not necessarily mean that the other teams are "losers" it does mean that the other teams can be motivated to learn and improve in their pursuit of excellence.

I agree, not everyone is a winner. Our Coach has told us that before, he says that 2nd place is the first loser. After we got 2nd place at our first event, I asked if we were going ton dinner to celebrate since we made it to finals with a nearly rookie team, yet he said no since we didn't win. I agree with not everybody are winners. If everybody was a "winner", it would take the motivation out of competing so toughly

[Ginger Power]

Depends on how you define being a winner. If you mean you're a winner of the competition, that's one way to think about it. You could also mean that those students at the events were winners because they are getting a fantastic experience, and learning a heck of a lot about Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math. I'm certain the speakers were referring to the latter.

[Alan Anderson]

"I'm not going to tell you all that you all are winners. At this point you are smart enough to know whether you are or you aren't." - Woodie Flowers

[Zyrano]

Originally Posted by Type

I agree, not everyone is a winner. Our Coach has told us that before, he says that 2nd place is the first loser. After we got 2nd place at our first event, I asked if we were going ton dinner to celebrate since we made it to finals with a nearly rookie team, yet he said no since we didn't win. I agree with not everybody are winners. If everybody was a "winner", it would take the motivation out of competing so toughly

I don't think I agree with this. The celebration should be working hard and fielding a robot and physically being there competing fiercely. If every team's success is defined by winning, then what you are saying is all other teams that were not on the winning alliance had failed. The Robot is only a vehicle, personally, as a mentor, success and winning is defined by how many kids are inspired. I don't really care whether you call everyone a winner, but I honestly think that each team that are there competing was successful.

[GreyingJay]

Good: "everybody's a winner - even if you didn't rank #1 and take home a trophy, the successes you saw and the experiences you had will mould and shape you for years to come"

Bad: "everybody's a winner, so we won't be ranking teams or giving out any trophies"

Originally Posted by Type

Our Coach has told us that before, he says that 2nd place is the first loser. After we got 2nd place at our first event, I asked if we were going ton dinner to celebrate since we made it to finals with a nearly rookie team, yet he said no since we didn't win.

I hope your coach said this light-heartedly, and that students on the team knew "what he really meant" because taken at its word, this is not an attitude I would agree with at all. Second place is an incredible achievement for any team (well, except 2056 )

We'll got for a team dinner after our competitions regardless of whether we won or not. When we win a regional, it'll be my treat.

[Type]

Originally Posted by GreyingJay

Good: "everybody's a winner - even if you didn't rank #1 and take home a trophy, the successes you saw and the experiences you had will mould and shape you for years to come"

Bad: "everybody's a winner, so we won't be ranking teams or giving out any trophies"



I hope your coach said this light-heartedly, and that students on the team knew "what he really meant" because taken at its word, this is not an attitude I would agree with at all. Second place is an incredible achievement for any team (well, except 2056 )

We'll got for a team dinner after our competitions regardless of whether we won or not. When we win a regional, it'll be my treat.

Of course he wasn't strict about it. He worded it more like if you won, I would have to take you out to dinner. Although 2nd is good, it's not as good as 1st. If you learn to settle for shy of the best, that's what you will always end up getting. You need to strive for first. Falling short of your goal is bad, but you can't really celebrate until you meet your goal. I hope what I'm saying makes sense.

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by Type

Of course he wasn't strict about it. He worded it more like if you won, I would have to take you out to dinner. Although 2nd is good, it's not as good as 1st. If you learn to settle for shy of the best, that's what you will always end up getting. You need to strive for first. Falling short of your goal is bad, but you can't really celebrate until you meet your goal. I hope what I'm saying makes sense.

It does, and I get what he's trying to say. "Never settle for second best." But I think there needs to be a balance.

[Nyxyxylyth]

Originally Posted by Type

I agree, not everyone is a winner. Our Coach has told us that before, he says that 2nd place is the first loser.

Last year the team I was with were Finalists, and the winning captain graciously explained "you know... in the playoffs, if your average isn't high enough, you just don't advance. So really, there are only three losers here today."

Now before anyone gets all huffy, it was one of the most GP teams around, and it was all in fun

[techhelpbb]

There are elements of chance in these games.
Referees can miss crossings.
Things can happen on the field that cause field faults and replays.
People can suffer from miscommunication.

The idea that the 3 teams that win got there purely because of superior effort is unrealistic.
So therefore the top few teams deserve recognition especially since they come, pay and play.

I don't know if everyone is a winner: but if your team makes it towards the end you probably did most things at least as well as the rest and had some luck on your side. I have seen teams with serious problems in their robot make it to the end game and even win.
If the Einstein report from years ago says anything: it says that robots that win at the Championship can still have unsolved issues.

In the end if you manage to actually field a robot and learned anything you really are a winner.
I've seen FRC parts being used in Master/Doctors college classes: our 'average' is well above the average.

(I'm sorry Batman, you can't lift Manhattan, you are just second rate hero to Superman. Saving lives is obviously less important than an island bench press competition. )

[Liam Fay]

Originally Posted by Type

I agree, not everyone is a winner. Our Coach has told us that before, he says that 2nd place is the first loser. After we got 2nd place at our first event, I asked if we were going ton dinner to celebrate since we made it to finals with a nearly rookie team, yet he said no since we didn't win. I agree with not everybody are winners. If everybody was a "winner", it would take the motivation out of competing so toughly

I disagree with this philosophy. Being second place at a regional of any kind is a phenomenal accomplishment, especially for a newer team. While it can be disappointing if that was your only hope of qualifying for CMP, it's still something you should be proud of. While it's important to always want to do better, calling 2nd place (!!) a loser is just unhealthy.

[IronicDeadBird]

Well not everyone is going to be walking home with some sort of prize at the end of an event. However its hard for me to look back and say I lost because of the people I met, the skills I learned, and the memories I made, all those things made it worth it for me at least.

[who716]

This has been discussed and I don't think there is yes or no answer to it depends on a lot of different things. For me personally I was brought up in a very competitive family as my brothers and I used to race professionally and that cost a lot of money so if we didn't win, it was a waste of a lot of money and resource. In the race no one recognized or sponsored the driver who came in second. that stuck with me in first aswell. I wasn't happy with any placement unless we won. I personally laughed at the pins given out and the finalist awards given out.
But it all depends on how and what people what from first. That going to decide whether everyone is a winner or just the winner.

But you can't forget that when you go out in the real world you will lose some compitition whether it be that dream job etc. and if you have spent your whole life believing everyone is a winner when you don't get that job it may be a harsh realization.

[ctt956]

Originally Posted by who716

This has been discussed and I don't think there is yes or no answer to it depends on a lot of different things. For me personally I was brought up in a very competitive family as my brothers and I used to race professionally and that cost a lot of money so if we didn't win, it was a waste of a lot of money and resource. In the race no one recognized or sponsored the driver who came in second. that stuck with me in first aswell. I wasn't happy with any placement unless we won. I personally laughed at the pins given out and the finalist awards given out.
But it all depends on how and what people what from first. That going to decide whether everyone is a winner or just the winner.

But you can't forget that when you go out in the real world you will lose some compitition whether it be that dream job etc. and if you have spent your whole life believing everyone is a winner when you don't get that job it may be a harsh realization.

This was my first year in robotics. I thought it was a "real" robotics competition. It isn't, and FIRST says that. You can watch this video from 1992 when FIRST was a real robotics competition. All the awards are great, but should be separate from the robotics competition. It should be an elimination tournament and based on individual merit. If your team works hard, has a great drive team, and builds a fantastic robot, your team should be rewarded for that work. The awards should not affect rank in the robotics portion at all. If it were a true competition, more people would come to watch it. And that is the best way to spread the STEM message. FIRST needs to encourage fan support.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

[1] New Englanders - would this have been an appropriate use of the word "wicked"?

"Wicked cool" would be appropriate. Just "Wicked" without "cool" would not be.

Originally Posted by ctt956

If your team works hard, has a great drive team, and builds a fantastic robot, your team should be rewarded for that work.

Yes, just like in the real world.