MI is the best?

[Jim Schaddelee]

Be from Michigan this is a little hard to say but, I think we need to step up our game.The idea that Michigan teams are the best might be bit arrogant. If I am correct we had zero teams in the finals this year, and only 2 on the Einstein field. Here are my thoughts on what is going on.
I believe in the past districts helped our teams by allowing us more matches and gain more experience but, this advantage is going away.Also based on the number of teams we have I think our districts are getting watered down. I can not tell you before the season we need to go to "X" district if we want to play with the best teams. And if I could I am not sure we could get in due to having home districts. which I totally understand is done to save teams travel expenses.
My point is this ,If you what to be the best you need to play with the best.and learn from the best.Currently we play with the best at State champs, but by then its to late to make improvements. So, Here is my ideas. How about a "super district" event early in the season were the best teams based on the previous year get a invite to come and play. How you pick the teams I don't know but it needs to be based on performance. I think FIM has done a great job in building a great number of team , Now that we have them how do we get better?

[Mike Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Jim Schaddelee

Be from Michigan this is a little hard to say but, I think we need to step up our game.The idea that Michigan teams are the best might be bit arrogant. If I am correct we had zero teams in the finals this year, and only 2 on the Einstein field. Here are my thoughts on what is going on.

3 MI teams on Einstein. 217 Captained the 7th alliance. 5050 was the 2nd pick of the #1 alliance. 3538 was the 2nd pick of the #4 alliance.

[Cam_Team 2619]

The notion of having a "super-district" competition/invitational competition seems extremely elitist in nature. Not only does this mean that there would be separate levels for "good" and "bad" teams, but there would be no chance for less experienced teams to compete with the pros, which can help teams improve in ways no one would ever expect.

Districts are meant to allow teams to compete where they wish, and play with a relatively diverse field of teams. Leave the "best playing the best" for the district/world championships.

[Basel A]

This seems to happen on its own pretty often. A number of top Michigan teams competed at Waterford in Week 1 when they could have just as easily switched to Southfield (nearby, Week 1, much weaker field).

[Moskowapplepi]

I had heard but never believed FIM valued elite play over inspiring people in their communoty, but I was sadly mistaken

[Jefferson]

Originally Posted by Moskowapplepi

I had heard but never believed FIM valued elite play over inspiring people in their communoty, but I was sadly mistaken

You made quite a leap there. I don't see anything in this thread so far that even hints at what you're suggesting. Robot performance and STEM inspiration are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I'd argue they go hand in hand.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Jefferson

You made quite a leap there. I don't see anything in this thread so far that even hints at what you're suggesting. Robot performance and STEM inspiration are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I'd argue they go hand in hand.

The OP is, essentially, saying that MI teams aren't competitive enough at Worlds. They aren't "the best". (That's what I'm getting from the OP, rather shortened of course.) I could also point to MULTIPLE discussions back when districts were first introduced that had a similar sort of bent. Trust me, some folks (not necessarily in this thread) seem to think this is a robotics competition for the competition's sake, and are thus apparently missing the bigger picture of "this is for INSPIRATION".

I can't say for sure that robot performance and STEM inspiration are tied together, either. They're related, but not the same. And it's going to be really hard to determine exactly what the relationship is.

[connor.worley]

Originally Posted by Moskowapplepi

I had heard but never believed FIM valued elite play over inspiring people in their communoty, but I was sadly mistaken

Are these things mutually exclusive? MI has elite play and extremely inspiring teams. The most inspiring teams (hall of fame team 67 comes to mind) often compete at the highest levels.

[1024Jerry]

In Indiana, moving to districts has been a great experience for building our First Community. Other districts, like Michigan have inspired us, in no small part as a competitive measuring stick . We were excited to have 7 Indiana teams compete on Saturday; 4 of them as alliance captains. 1501 represented Indiana well on Einstein. Michigan's strong FRC community has helped inspired everyone else and should be proud of that accomplishment.

We have loved getting to know some of the MI teams who have come down to compete with us in our districts and IRI. They always bring the highest level of competition. Thanks Michigan!

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by Cam_Team 2619

there would be no chance for less experienced teams to compete with the pros, which can help teams improve in ways no one would ever expect.

Pretty sure they were suggesting an additional event. What takes place now would continue to take place. You'd have the mix at the range of regional events. Their suggestion is to add an additional event using the past season as a prediction of who is going to be successful this season and give them an extra chance to play against strong teams and push themselves going into the season.

In theory, this would have a bit of a waterfall effect. These teams would compete, get ideas, improve before their regionals, and spread these improvements to other teams at the regionals. I'm not sure where it'd hurt anyone.

[Hot_Copper_Frog]

Originally Posted by JeffB

Pretty sure they were suggesting an additional event. What takes place now would continue to take place. You'd have the mix at the range of regional events. Their suggestion is to add an additional event using the past season as a prediction of who is going to be successful this season and give them an extra chance to play against strong teams and push themselves going into the season.

In theory, this would have a bit of a waterfall effect. These teams would compete, get ideas, improve before their regionals, and spread these improvements to other teams at the regionals. I'm not sure where it'd hurt anyone.

If we're talking within the context of the Michigan district system, this would be incredibly impractical. Highly competitive teams are attending two district events and often a third, and district championships/world championships based on qualification. For these "elite" teams we're discussing, that means five events in two months which is exhausting for the team and the robot. Trying to add an event somewhere in the beginning for only super awesome teams so they can get even more awesome seems a little redundant and unproductive.

[Basel A]

Wanted to add to my post above, because the OP has a point. The top few teams in Michigan have done worse at the Championship in recent years versus how well the top few Michigan teams have done in the intermediate past. Additionally, Michigan districts are definitely weaker than they used to be, due to the huge growth in number of teams over the past few years. I'm not sure if those are related, but to me it makes logical sense that it could be a factor.

That said, I don't see any need for FiM to make any organizational changes to help up the game of the dozen or two Michigan teams playing at the highest level. This is the least of our problems. I think that if/when Michigan stops growing so fast, the competitiveness of Michigan districts will rebound nicely. We can help that along, not by segregating the great teams, but by allowing them to engage with and mentor struggling teams.

[natejo99]

Originally Posted by Cam_Team 2619

no chance for less experienced teams to compete with the pros

I agree. This can be extremely unfair, because I have personally witnessed Michigan rookies become captains/first pics at multiple events in their first year of competition. Take, for example, 4967 in 2014, or 5980 this year. They, and many other rookie/inexperienced teams deserved to compete with Michigan's best and brightest from previous years, but would have been denied a chance at competing in this event solely based on the age of their team. On the flip side of that, you have Michigan teams, who generally perform at an amazing level, that would be admitted to this event that might not be performing at that level that particular year. An example of this is 469. Great team, generally perform at an exceptional level, but this year was not their year.


However, I agree that it would be nice to play with Michigan's best teams in a given season. My alternate proposal is an offseason event with an application process based on that years season, similar to IRI. Whether that be a new event in the summer, or WMRI in the fall, it would be a great alternative.

[CloakAndDagger]

It also might be good to remember that because the season had a late start, The West Michigan district was populated with many more new teams than old, on account of week 4 taking place during Easter weekend. Off the top of my head, Strike Force and That One Team didn't make it. I'd see what happens next year, because in the past, and hopefully going foreward, The West Michigan district has been one of, if not the most competitive districts in the state

[CloakAndDagger]

I mean, they still weren't there...

In seriousness, something felt wrong about including them on that list, but I didn't know exactly what it was, like I said- it was off the top of my head.

I'll change it