Question Of The Week [11-01-02]

[Ken Leung]

Hi all. Since most of you guys are so enthusiastic about posting replies in long interesting threads, I thought it would be fun to direct some of that energy and have some discussion about FIRST again. So, I am bringing back Question of the week again! Let's start with something easy, shall we? Here is... the first question of the week of the 2002-2003 season...


Questions 11/01/02: What do FIRST mean to you personally, and why on earth are you spending so much time in it?

Extra bonus points if you can include a little bit about why rookie FIRST participants should spend as much time in FIRST as you do, and why high school students who aren't on a team should join or start one, and... oh... why companies/parents/engineers/school administration/friends should help teams out...

Shouldn't be too hard, right?

Have fun,

-Ken L

[Johca_Gaorl]

I am a rookie this year

I love FIRST, even though it's only been one competition (DotD) and all, and I didn't build the robot I drove there. It's just been extremely fun, and everyone is really great and helpful. It's been one of the best things I've done in my life so far.

[Amber H.]

Being pointed in the direction of FIRST for a writing project was one of the most fortunate happenstances of my life of late. Having interaction with bright, creative young adults that are a breed apart has been a lifeline of hope to me as my entire world was blown apart this past summer.
The young people here (At CD, and FIRST) are truly a cut above the rest IMO. Even the curmudgeon club (my father and his cronies) was impressed with you all when I explained what FIRST was and the effect it had. They’ve taken a good hard look at you kids and found many good things to say. That is one of the highest honors in my experience.

[Brandon Martus]

As a side note, for those of you who are relatively new to the forums:

The Question of the Week is a 2-year old tradition that was started by Andy Grady here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=11101

The questions came once a week, every sunday evening I believe. They were mostly FIRST-related, and were the source of a great deal of awesome FIRST-related conversation.

If you want to go back and take a look at some of the older ones, go to the search page, and search for 'QUESTION OF THE WEEK' by username 'archiver'.

Ken volunteered to take over for Andy when he 'retired' from the QotW a while ago. I hope that Ken will keep posting the questions. They tend to dig up alot of good FIRST-related conversation, and bring the forums back on track to what they were intended for: FIRST, FIRST, and yes, FIRST.

[Redhead Jokes]

Originally posted by Ken L
What do FIRST mean to you personally, and why on earth are you spending so much time in it?

Extra bonus points if you can include a little bit about why rookie FIRST participants should spend as much time in FIRST as you do, and why high school students who aren't on a team should join or start one, and... oh... why companies/parents/engineers/school administration/friends should help teams out...

2000 my stepson (ss) was beginning high school and our family rule was 2 extracurriculars. The robotics' program wasn't publicized well, but I spied it out and emailed the teacher. He emailed me back suspiciously, "who are you?" *shrug* a parent. He curtly explained the program wouldn't start til Jan.

Ss attended all meetings, but sociability isn't his strong point. The VP made an unpopular decision, including ss in going to FL altho he didn't do much. The team won regionally and nationally. There was enthusiasm showing in ss.

2002 my husband joined the team as mentor trying to help ss stay in the program. My 17yo gregarious daughter joined for the same reason. My husband, the computer guru, had a ball also helping building the robot. We had no clue how much my daughter would thrive in the program. She'd never "taken" to other extracurricular stuff. Her sister-in-law is amazed, remarking, "I can't believe Angela's doing this." Angela worked at the machine shop, co-drove at all the competitions, and became RUHS President of robotics 2003.

2003 my freshman daughter and I joined. My freshman daughter took a welding class over the summer before her freshman year with her stepdad cuz a robotics' alumni had mentioned girls make the best welders. My 14yo, the youngest to have ever taken the welding class, kicked her stepdad's butt in the class.

Then, with our partners - a family from our rival school MCHS, we began to make excellent progress in making the team better. A year round program, a single facility to work in, gracious professionalism a value that was ignored in the past became a priority, I discovered a flair for publicity and fundraising. Our robotics team is now EASY for people to find out about.

My ss's dropped out. The rest of us are having a ball.

My 14yo daughter is recruiting people like crazy. They don't know they want to be in robotics. They don't know the kind of fun they're going to have. They don't know all the different kinds of skills they can learn, and what they're capable of. They're finding out.

[AdamT]

I joined in 2000. I was invited by my girlfriend at the time and wanted to participate immediately. The team was just starting then and had not quite formed...all it really was at the time was some high schoolers meeting with some college kids and talking about robotics. We had no money, we had no space, and we really didn't even have the team...

That's how 401 started...

The whole project grabbed me from the get-go if nothing more then because of the hands-on involvement. Somehow, we mustered up the money and space to build our first robot. We went to VCU and even found the money to go to Nationals. That was one of the most amazing experiences I can remember.

Since then, the student body has grown, we have gained the support of our public schools system, and we still have no money. We have completed three years of the competition and are going into our fourth. Out of the 16 original members, three of us still religiously attend meetings.

FIRST actually pointed me in the direction I wanted to move my life. As corny as it sounds, I had no clue as to what I wanted to do. Now I am a student at Virginia Tech and plan to graduate with a major in engineering (which one, I'm not sure). It gave me something to do with all that crap I had learned in school.

Why should companies sponsor teams? Look at my team...we have no money, and because of it we will most likely suffer heavily. We have made the effort to involve students from the alternative school, and we may not be able to show them what it's all about.

Why should kids join? Where else do you get to learn more in 6 weeks then you would in a school year, build a working robot, and compete with it?

[Aaron Lussier]

Originally posted by Ken L
Questions 11/01/02: What do FIRST mean to you personally, and why on earth are you spending so much time in it?

Extra bonus points if you can include a little bit about why rookie FIRST participants should spend as much time in FIRST as you do, and why high school students who aren't on a team should join or start one, and... oh... why companies/parents/engineers/school administration/friends should help teams out...

Shouldn't be too hard, right?

Have fun,

-Ken L

What FIRST means to me hmmm..... thats a tough one In order to answer that I'll start from the beginning. The first day of my sophmore year every new kid went to the gym where a Club fair was being held. I wandered around for a while did'not see anything I liked really but I signed up for Drama crew cause I did not see anything else i liked Then just as I though there was nothing for me I heard the sound of a badly tencioned chain jumping around on a sproket. This drew me to the corner of the gym where I saw the craziest looking robot I had ever seen in the entire world. I saw it roller system draw up balls and watched as its huge arm Grabed the drwan up ball and plaved it in a basket like 8 feet in the air. The moment I saw this I was hooked. I talked to the students how were running the robot, I asked questions about the game and how to sign up. Thus began the greatest experience of my life. From that day I have loved first with all my heart (I never did go to any Drama meetings). When ever I was at a FIRST meeting I felt like part of a team, Eventually I became part of an elite core group of students with in the team that every body on the team simply called the Elites Were were the student who got there early and left late every day during the six weeks. We would not stop working untill the stuff we had outlined at the begining of the night was done. Even if it was 3:30 in the morning. We stayed untill it was done.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that becasue of FIRST and all the wonderful people on my team have shown me something that has changed my life for the better with out FIRST I'm not sure what I would be doing right now.

As for rookies on teams I don't think they should spend as much time as me cause I'm crazy Rookies should try and become an intrical part of there team, they should suggest things and ask questions, even if it's all ready been though of, it still gets them experience on what works and what does not work when coming to building a robot in every disipline.

For Students who are not on a FIRST team I belive that they are missing out on some of the best times of there life not only do you learn about building robots you make friends and meet aquateances that you will have for the rest of your life.

If everybody helped out with some team, some where I think the world would just be a better place in general With teamwork, resect, hard work I belive that anybody anywhere can accomplish anything.

[Andy Baker]

This won't be brief.

Why I do FIRST, by Andy Baker.

Background: In high school and college, I was sorta labelled a "jock"... but I didn't like it. So, I also was in the band, theatre, student leadership, and more sports. I was even decent enough at sports to play football in college.

So, I graduate with a Mechanical Engineering degree in 1991 and hire on at Delphi (named Delco Electronics at the time) in January of 1992. I walk into my cubicle, and my neighbor is designing some robot toy that is supposed to run on corn against other robots (this was our team's initial year in FIRST).

Over the next few years, I play some more football (semi-pro), get involved in a band (rock&roll, baby!) and then finally decide to settle down and get married.

About this time, I realize a few things... the stuff I am spending my time on are very selfish and not very productive. So... I decide to get involved with the local Big Brothers organization... and I loved it.

Finally, I realized that it would be good for me to join my co-workers and join the Delphi FIRST team, the TechnoKats. This was in 1998, and I've had a great time ever since. To me, it's a combination of competitive sports, "big brother"-type mentoring, and an engineering challenge.

For the first couple of years, my wife thought that I spent too much time with the TechnoKats... but over the years, I've learned to budget my time with the team and the family (as my team knows, it's definitely family first). But I found some ways to make both work. Sure, I had to give up some things like golf and hanging with some buddies... but I can find time for those once in a while.

Also... it helps that my old cubicle neighbor who was designing that toy robot which ran on corn is now my boss.

All in all, I have not found anything that I would rather call my hobby than FIRST. No sports, band, or activity comes even close.

Andy B.

[Madison]

Now is about as good a time as any that I can think of to answer this question. I hope that, given some of what’s happened of late, and what I’m facing in the future, this will help me to understand why I am here – and you all get to come along for the ride. Maybe, then, some more about me will become clear. Maybe, then, people will understand.

I am different. I’m not like anyone else here, or anywhere else I’ve ever been. I think, primarily, that is why people don’t understand the depth, complexity, and passion that goes into what I do here. I don’t raise Hell because I’m bored, or because I can’t stand to be wrong, or because I feel better degrading other people. I raise Hell, really, because that’s exactly why I am involved in FIRST.

Some people – here on CD, in Industry, in academia – see FIRST as just what it proclaims itself to be. They see it as an academic program designed to get students interested in science and technology by allowing them the opportunity to work on real-world scenarios with practicing professionals. I know that it’s had great success in that regard, but I feel that such a view is only scratching the surface of what FIRST is capable of. While I see here on Long Island that industry supports FIRST in their effort to keep technology-savvy employees in this area, I do not see them encouraging students to pursue innovation. In some cases, in fact, I see teams from our area, as well as across the country, that stifle the creative inspiration of students in the name of learning. They reason, perhaps correctly, that their students will learn more by watching than doing; by absorbing the intricacies of this task rather than by discovering them. They justify this by noting that FIRST asks that we ‘inspire’ students. So, again, inspiration does not need to come from participation.

Of course, like it seems with everything, I disagree with this. Thankfully, in this instance, I know that I’m not alone, and that there are many, many amazing teams, mentors, and companies that encourage the participation of their students. For people who have known me for a long time, or for those who know me well, it’s entirely obvious that I can be a control freak. I worry. A lot. I want things to be done well. So, because of that, I think I was entirely too much of a monopolist where our design was concerned. I am ashamed of that.

This season, as so much else in my life has changed, I plan to do things much differently. Part of that is out of necessity – as I’m faced with a planned cross-country move in less than two months – and I need to do all that I can to prepare my team to work as an autonomous whole. Part of it is because I’ve finally taken ownership of my life and my future, and I want to see my team do the same.

I take my role as a mentor very, very seriously. In my past, my involvement as a mentor on three different teams has been among the only things keeping me going. I am forever indebted to FIRST for giving me purpose during those darkest times. Many people may not agree with my methodology because I unabashedly speak my mind, because I challenge convention, or because I encourage disagreement. But, it is precisely because of these qualities that I am most proud. I want to teach my students how to determine gear ratios, certainly, and I want to give them every opportunity to see what amazing things have been done in the fields of science and technology. But, for me, much more importantly, I want my students to see what it means to question the world around them. I want them to seek out innovation, progress, and revolution. I want them to be exposed to as many different ideas, opinions, histories, and lifestyles as I can find. I want them to know that success comes in many different forms, under many different names.

The homogeneity that I sometimes see permeating the FIRST community is among the most disheartening things I can imagine. Agreement leads to stagnation. Stagnation leads to death. Disagreement, controversy and passion are the pulsing life blood of a growing movement. While so many people seek to quell controversy, I welcome it. I want my students here on Long Island and anyone else I can reach across the country to see it in its splendor.

I write a lot on these boards about things that aren’t related to FIRST. In fact, I enjoy the forums most for that discussion. ChiefDelphi is certainly an invaluable resource for those seeking information regarding any of the myriad problems faced by our teams, but, like FIRST, I believe it can be so much more. I put in a lot of time and effort into many of my posts, and I do my best to exhaustively research and explain my position. I should put so much effort into school, but it’s not nearly as rewarding. But, the reality is that nothing I write is meant personally, and while I often agree with what I’m writing, that’s not always the case. Instead, I present an opposing opinion. I question everything. I do it on ChiefDelphi; I do it on my team, and in my life. I do it, sometimes, until I’m paralyzed, but I’ve learned quite a lot about my family, friends, the world, and myself. Sometimes, I’m happy with what I see. Many times, I’m scared. But, in the end, it is that intensive self-examination that has allowed me to be where I am now. Without it, I can’t be certain where – or if – I’d be.

So, while it’s certainly not popular, and the prevailing attitude seems to be that I’m an arrogant, petty pain in the behind, that’s not really the case. I am doing things the best way I know how, and I’m doing it for an audience. I’m not always perfect, I’m not always right, and I’m certainly not always acting with conviction, but I must carry on. This, above all else, is what I want the students to see. I want them to see adversity. I want them to experience conflict. I want them to grow as I have – because of FIRST.

My fervor has increased noticeably in recent months. I am approaching a crossroads. I am experiencing the joy of knowing where I’m headed and the terror of, maybe, forgetting where I’ve been. I have been faced with many difficult decisions, many adverse opinions, and many, many attempts at undermining the little conviction I possess.

So, finally, since I’m probably rambling – my intention, and my real reason for being involved in FIRST, is less about building robots, traveling to Walt Disney World, or opening up career opportunities than it is about being an example. It’s about being myself, as flawed, confused, and unconventional as I may be. It’s about changing ideas, changing people, and changing the world. It’s about exposing these students to one more idea, one more challenge, and one more opportunity to question their world – to learn, to grow, to change, and to innovate.

EDIT: Thanks, Ken, for starting up the Question of the Week again. Maybe, to everyone's benefit, I can channel some of my energy into this, and while I'm long-winded, it has to be better than wrecking everything, everywhere I go. The road to Hell is paved with good intention, right?

[Adam Y.]

Where on Long Island do you live M Krass????

Thankfully, in this instance, I know that I’m not alone, and that there are many, many amazing teams, mentors, and companies that encourage the participation of their students.

Are you telling me that some teams the students don't actually help build the robot or design it??? That gets rid off all the fun. Our robot was 90% built by students of course the 10% that was partially built and designed by our mentor ended up getting thrown out of the robot. Of course that may explain why our robot ended up falling backwards twice and ended up having ducktape on its wheels. Of course I've always liked building things. First is just giving me an outlet. Off course after reading 4 books I finally understood why our robot had ducktape on its wheels.

[Hailfire]

Yeah, I'm on a rookie team this year too. Personally, I'm only doing this because I like to program and use animation software as well as strategy building. Team #1037, the Stoney Creek Robotics it is.

[Ken Leung]

FIRST is the reason why I've decided to get an education at University, why my AIM buddy list is full and 90% of them are FIRSTers, why I would hop on a plane and fly 3000 miles just to meet some friends from East Coast, why I am meeting very cool people from every where, why I am doing all these things with the west coast teams... And most importantly, FIRST is the reason why I am who I am today. Without it I would've been lost, no knowing what to do or where to go...

I've been in FRC ever since the end of 1998, so, that's about 4.5 years. Every single year meant a dramatic change of my life, whether it was just meeting my group of friends, or deciding the goal of my life, or trying out different projects.

Few things I never would've done if I was never in FIRST, which I eventually realize how each of those events help shape my life.... :

Build a robot (duh!)
My first All-nighter with other people
Use machines like mill and lathe AND be the one teaching others about it
Help others in leading a team and observe the whole process in 6 weeks
Became a mentor of different teams in the Bay Area
Travel back and forth on public transportation for 6 hours every weekend just to go back to GRT
Teach workshops about motors and drive train
Manage a local post season competition with a FIRST regional director
someone actually remember by b-day


And the reason why I am spending so much time in all these is because it SO MUCH FUN!!! (enough said)



I talked to many people to see what FIRST mean to them, and I look at the replies above, and got so many different answers. So, I looked at the FIRST site for their mission to see what they are trying to do, and here it is:

"Our mission: FIRST designs accessible, innovative programs to build self-confidence, knowledge and life skills while motivating young people to pursue opportunities in science, technology and engineering. " -http://www.usfirst.org/about/index.html

What a simple mission, and yet it generated so many different answers from people about what FIRST means to them.

Some believes, its purely about inspiration, and as long as students are inspired to go to college, FIRST has done its job. Others believe learning is a big part of the program, and if you didn't do anything on the robot you didn't fully benefit from the program.

Then there are others who consider working on the Chairman award entry have enough inspiration and education in itself, while others think you have to get the full experience by working on the robot, leading the team, meeting people at competition, share the experience on online forums, and train new students with their knownledge learned from this competition...


The fact that FIRST's mission is so simple means a lot of freedom for the people who participate in it. Its not just about the robot, its not just about the award, and its not just about going to Disney. Its a combination of each of those different things at different degree.

The bottom line is, FIRST is helping everyone of its participant to become a better person.

So, my suggestions to all the FIRST participants is: Go talk to all these other FIRSTers and learn their story. Figure out what other cool stuff others are doing, and expand your FIRST experience as much as possible. Don't just repeat the same thing over and over again. You will then realize how much fun it is to explore different things.


And this... concludes the Question of the Week 11/01/02. I am going to start another question really soon, so stay tune. But feel free to reply if you would like to. Please PM me if you have any questions you want to ask, or have topics you think would spark really interesting discussions.