Go to Post Losing is important. In some cases, more so than winning. - JackS [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2017, 14:54
Darre_Bonfire's Avatar
Darre_Bonfire Darre_Bonfire is offline
Registered User
AKA: Darrell Holmes IV
FRC #2655 (The Flying Platypi)
Team Role: Scout
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Rookie Year: 2017
Location: NC
Posts: 8
Darre_Bonfire is on a distinguished road
Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.

An article posted by the Blue Alliance blog suggests that order in which alliance members are selected will be vital to take into consideration in FIRSTSteamworks.

https://blog.thebluealliance.com/201...he-lower-seed/

Because the order in which Alliance captains choose their teammates determines which drive station they will be in, it will significantly impact how teams will be chosen. If you are anything other than 1st or 8th seed you could potentially wind up in a situation where your player station assignments with respect to the field will change. So 1st and 8th can count on what station they would be in, and could pick accordingly, but otherwise your team would have to be robust in where your picks are positioned. For example if you wanted to choose your gear-bot second then depending whether you are in the blue alliance or red alliance, it might hinder the skills of that particular team.



How do you think this will effect team and alliance choices this year? Discuss.
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2017, 14:59
Brian Maher's Avatar
Brian Maher Brian Maher is online now
Questionable Decisionmakers
FRC #2791 (Shaker Robotics), FRC #1257 (Parallel Universe)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Troy, NY; NJ
Posts: 476
Brian Maher has a reputation beyond reputeBrian Maher has a reputation beyond reputeBrian Maher has a reputation beyond reputeBrian Maher has a reputation beyond reputeBrian Maher has a reputation beyond reputeBrian Maher has a reputation beyond reputeBrian Maher has a reputation beyond reputeBrian Maher has a reputation beyond reputeBrian Maher has a reputation beyond reputeBrian Maher has a reputation beyond reputeBrian Maher has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darre_Bonfire View Post
So 1st and 8th can count on what station they would be in, and could pick accordingly, but otherwise your team would have to be robust in where your picks are positioned.
This an interesting discussion topic, but I have one minor correction*: it is the 1st alliance who always has red bumpers and the 6th alliance who always has blue bumpers. It is based off a bracket position, not seed. If #8 upsets #1, they are red for semifinals and finals.

*Assuming this didn't change this year. I couldn't find anything in the manual stating one way or the other on this, so I imagine it is the same as usual.

As for the impact of this: I think a lot of alliance captains will be looking for defenders with some sort of onboard camera.
__________________
2016-present, Mentor, FRC 2791 - Shaker Robotics
2016: Tech Valley SF (5236, 2791, 3624) and Quality, Finger Lakes SF (5254, 2791, 2383), Battlecry@WPI Winner (195, 2791, 501), Robot Rumble Winner (2791, 195, 6463)

2016-present, Mentor, FRC 1257 - Parallel Universe
2016: Mount Olive Winner (1257, 5624, 1676), Bridgewater-Raritan Finalist (1257, 25, 3340, 555) and GP, MAR CMP Winner (225, 341, 1257), Archimedes SF (4003, 4564, 5842, 1257), IRI Invite

2012-2015, Student, FRC 1257 - Parallel Universe
2015: Mount Olive QF (1257, 1811, 1923) and Safety Award, North Brunswick Finalist (11, 193, 1257) and Team Spirit and Safety Awards
2014: Clifton Winner (1626, 869, 1257), MAR CMP QF (1257, 293, 303)
2013: TCNJ Safety Award
2012: Mount Olive QF (204, 303, 1257)
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2017, 15:05
GaryVoshol's Avatar
GaryVoshol GaryVoshol is offline
Cogito ergo arbitro
no team
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posts: 5,757
GaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.

Point of order, it's the #6 Alliance that always stays Blue, not #8.

I thought this was already being discussed elsewhere, but I couldn't find it.
__________________
(since 2004)
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2017, 16:01
ImAnEngiNERD's Avatar
ImAnEngiNERD ImAnEngiNERD is offline
Registered User
AKA: Kristen Chong
FRC #2655 (Flying Platypi)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Rookie Year: 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4
ImAnEngiNERD is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.

I had thought so too, but also didn't find any conversations on it.

Now teams will have to weigh the cost/benefit of waiting to pick another team in order to put them in a better position for sight lines or risk them getting snatched up by someone none-the-wiser. I sort of wonder whether GDC will recognize the issue and fix the assignments or if this was an intended twist in order to avoid 2nd pick being the "less competitive" bot to shake things up.

It's looking more and more like drive-by-wire is a necessity this year. If you can drive effectively regardless of position, it would make you an even more attractive as a pick since you would be flexible on position.
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2017, 16:20
bdaroz's Avatar
bdaroz bdaroz is offline
Programming Mentor
AKA: Brian Rozmierski
FRC #5881 (TVHS Dragons)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 408
bdaroz has much to be proud ofbdaroz has much to be proud ofbdaroz has much to be proud ofbdaroz has much to be proud ofbdaroz has much to be proud ofbdaroz has much to be proud ofbdaroz has much to be proud ofbdaroz has much to be proud ofbdaroz has much to be proud of
Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImAnEngiNERD View Post
I sort of wonder whether GDC will recognize the issue and fix the assignments or if this was an intended twist in order to avoid 2nd pick being the "less competitive" bot to shake things up.
We Q&A'd this question asking about qualification matches -- if the FMS this year would attempt to balance team position in the alliances, and basically got told "here's the docs", which say nothing about it. We also asked about elims and got told, you can't move stations, and they're based on selection....

So absent a significant lobbying effort by the teams, or an event where a team gets station 2 for all or nearly all of quals, I don't expect any changes.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2017, 17:47
ImAnEngiNERD's Avatar
ImAnEngiNERD ImAnEngiNERD is offline
Registered User
AKA: Kristen Chong
FRC #2655 (Flying Platypi)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Rookie Year: 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4
ImAnEngiNERD is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.

For quals, I would have to agree it is 100% up to FMS to maintain fairness. But the issue arises in elims, when position is based on pick order, not a randomizer. Further, two alliances (1 and 6) don't have to worry about their teams being robust in driver station position because they will be either always red or always blue respectively. Everyone else has to keep in mind that in one level of the bracket or another their alliance color may change. This hasn't been a problem in other games because the field was rotationally symmetrical.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2017, 18:31
Sperkowsky's Avatar
Sperkowsky Sperkowsky is offline
Professional Multitasker
AKA: Samuel Perkowsky
FRC #2869 (Regal Eagles)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Rookie Year: 2014
Location: Bethpage, NY
Posts: 1,916
Sperkowsky has a reputation beyond reputeSperkowsky has a reputation beyond reputeSperkowsky has a reputation beyond reputeSperkowsky has a reputation beyond reputeSperkowsky has a reputation beyond reputeSperkowsky has a reputation beyond reputeSperkowsky has a reputation beyond reputeSperkowsky has a reputation beyond reputeSperkowsky has a reputation beyond reputeSperkowsky has a reputation beyond reputeSperkowsky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.

A system similar to how the fms handles 4 team alliances should be put into Elims imo. This would allow teams to choose which team is in which position. Maybe unlike how 4 team alliances work the stations would be locked allowing for less work on the Scorekeeper. Should alleviate all concerns for Elims without too much work on the end of anyone.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2017, 19:01
ImAnEngiNERD's Avatar
ImAnEngiNERD ImAnEngiNERD is offline
Registered User
AKA: Kristen Chong
FRC #2655 (Flying Platypi)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Rookie Year: 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4
ImAnEngiNERD is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sperkowsky View Post
A system similar to how the fms handles 4 team alliances should be put into Elims imo. This would allow teams to choose which team is in which position. Maybe unlike how 4 team alliances work the stations would be locked allowing for less work on the Scorekeeper. Should alleviate all concerns for Elims without too much work on the end of anyone.
Would certainly also solve the problem of the alliance captain being stuck behind the airship, which is arguably the worst station for visibility. Our scout/strategy team was looking at this as well, and if we do as well this year as we did last year we can almost count on being in that position.
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2017, 22:23
Darre_Bonfire's Avatar
Darre_Bonfire Darre_Bonfire is offline
Registered User
AKA: Darrell Holmes IV
FRC #2655 (The Flying Platypi)
Team Role: Scout
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Rookie Year: 2017
Location: NC
Posts: 8
Darre_Bonfire is on a distinguished road
Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.

The only thing that could be worse than being alliance captain and being in that middle spot, is being a gear-bot team and being the second pick, it puts you in a position where you are diagonal from the loading station where you can barely see from that angle. If you don't have a camera on your robot at that point you are in a really bad position.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2017, 23:56
Caleb Sykes's Avatar
Caleb Sykes Caleb Sykes is online now
Registered User
FRC #4536 (MinuteBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 1,062
Caleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Alliance Selection and Driver Selection Location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darre_Bonfire View Post
How do you think this will effect team and alliance choices this year? Discuss.
I won't speak for anyone else, but this will not be anywhere on my radar for alliance selection. Off the top of my head, I could name 5 other characteristics that will be at least an order of magnitude more important for making my selections.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:33.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi