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Unread 16-01-2017, 10:28
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ball "fuel" hopper sorter

Have any of you come up with a fast and reliable way to sort a hopper full of balls into a single file feed for your shooter?
We have experimented with what the boiler mechanism is using but in the confined space of what we have for a hopper we are not having much success getting more than 2 balls/sec reliably. Spin the sorter to fast and balls just bounce around. Somtimes the balls bind against each other in the strangest of places and wreak havoc.
Thanks
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Unread 16-01-2017, 10:50
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Re: ball "fuel" hopper sorter

I am sure some teams have, but I think you will be limited in how much info many teams want to share, this type of device/design will be a big differentiator.

I would recommend looking at some 2006 robots. 254 and 1114 (and their associated twins/triplets) had large hoppers that ran well without jamming. 217 also had a memorable system for sorting balls and feeding them individually, I heard it described as both a revolver, and a gumball machine, depending on your frame of reference.
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Unread 16-01-2017, 10:55
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Re: ball "fuel" hopper sorter

thanks
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Unread 16-01-2017, 13:03
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Re: ball "fuel" hopper sorter

if you look at hoppers of professional paintball guns that might be a good idea
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Unread 16-01-2017, 13:09
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Re: ball "fuel" hopper sorter

Take a look at some of the Ri3D teams, specifically the Greenhorns, and how they did it. Many had to solve hte same problem.

I'll be honest, we're in a prototyping stage of 2 shooters, and a hopper that is a pyramid in the center, causing balls to go either right or left, with agitators on both so we don't get a jam. Lowers our capacity a bit, but the speed might make for it.

Prototype! Always prototype, regardless how crazy!
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Unread 16-01-2017, 13:11
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Re: ball "fuel" hopper sorter

I really think the best way to do this is to not have to sort your hopper into a single feed. In 2009, the last volume scoring game, lots of teams trapped themselves into this paradigm early on and found their scoring potential harshly limited.
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Unread 16-01-2017, 14:22
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Re: ball "fuel" hopper sorter

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Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
I really think the best way to do this is to not have to sort your hopper into a single feed. In 2009, the last volume scoring game, lots of teams trapped themselves into this paradigm early on and found their scoring potential harshly limited.
Many of those teams in 2009 did a sort of spray shoot that didn't need to go very high in the air if at all. This is a completely different size and material game piece that needs quite a bit of accuracy to get into the goal. Introducing them in a reliable and consistent manner is going to improve accuracy greatly.
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Unread 16-01-2017, 14:27
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Re: ball "fuel" hopper sorter

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Originally Posted by Jarren Harkema View Post
Many of those teams in 2009 did a sort of spray shoot that didn't need to go very high in the air if at all. This is a completely different size and material game piece that needs quite a bit of accuracy to get into the goal. Introducing them in a reliable and consistent manner is going to improve accuracy greatly.
Compare the relative size of the goal and the game pieces in 2009 and 2017. It's much closer than you think!

And, many teams did shoot high in the air, they just converted their shooters to shoot down so that the ball landed in the goal sooner after the shot was taken. Accurate repeatable arc shots with multiple ball wide shooters were clearly demonstrated, just suboptimal for that game.

Don't knock it before you prototype it. If your shooter "wheels" and/or backboard are a uniform thickness / speed / etc, isn't the shot consistent across the shooter width?
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Unread 17-01-2017, 18:26
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Re: ball "fuel" hopper sorter

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Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
Compare the relative size of the goal and the game pieces in 2009 and 2017. It's much closer than you think!
Absolutely this!
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Unread 17-01-2017, 19:24
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Re: ball "fuel" hopper sorter

Impellers like those used in paintball guns are absolutely a good idea to prototype, but don't come in with the assumption that because it's the most effective loader for paintball, it must also be the most effective loader for robots this year. A big difference between paintball hoppers and robots this year is the size of the balls relative to the container.
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Unread 17-01-2017, 15:50
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Re: ball "fuel" hopper sorter

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Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
I really think the best way to do this is to not have to sort your hopper into a single feed. In 2009, the last volume scoring game, lots of teams trapped themselves into this paradigm early on and found their scoring potential harshly limited.
Do you mind providing an example or two of teams that did NOT have to sort their hopper into a single feed and were successful? I'm just not quite sure if I understand your point entirely.
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Unread 17-01-2017, 16:06
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Re: ball "fuel" hopper sorter

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Originally Posted by Cothron Theiss View Post
Do you mind providing an example or two of teams that did NOT have to sort their hopper into a single feed and were successful? I'm just not quite sure if I understand your point entirely.
67, 971, and 111 are solid examples to start with.
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Unread 17-01-2017, 16:11
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Re: ball "fuel" hopper sorter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cothron Theiss View Post
Do you mind providing an example or two of teams that did NOT have to sort their hopper into a single feed and were successful? I'm just not quite sure if I understand your point entirely.
unfortunately there is little match video, but our (1318) design in 2009 was 2.5 (ish) balls wide from intake to outflow. We won a regional and seeded #2 on Galileo.

I think his point was that once you commit to a singe stream shooter, you commit to a bottleneck mechanism, and if you skip the single width shooter, you may never need a bottleneck.
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Unread 17-01-2017, 16:12
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Re: ball "fuel" hopper sorter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cothron Theiss View Post
Do you mind providing an example or two of teams that did NOT have to sort their hopper into a single feed and were successful? I'm just not quite sure if I understand your point entirely.
Part of the challenge is that most of these robots converted themselves into short-range dumpers before too long, since it was very easy for this style of robot to do that.

67 was a two ball wide shooter, but balls that came up in the middle shot just fine.

228 was not the greatest robot, but I'm very familiar with that example - a 3 inch diameter drum across the entire width shooter with a lexan hood allowed for those kind of shots.

Dumpers that had more of an active "shot" out rather than a slower puke could be argued to be this kind of shooter - 47's rebuild, 254 / 968, etc. come to mind.

100's shooter is pretty much perfect for this, but their hopper did divide into two single file channels (I'm not sure that was necessary, but that's how it was).

The key design details tend to be the use of a roller of uniform diameter rather than spaced wheels, and the use of a curved backboard made from a single piece of plastic rather than separate "rails" used on some hooded shooters.
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Unread 17-01-2017, 18:17
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Re: ball "fuel" hopper sorter

I don't have any useful answer or suggestion here, other than I've just decided my personal term for this robot system is now "fuel injector".
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