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Unread 01-02-2017, 14:13
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pic: Spectrum 3847 - 2017 CAD Model: Gamma Ray

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Unread 01-02-2017, 14:14
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Re: pic: Spectrum 3847 - 2017 CAD Model: Gamma Ray

That arm on the front stays inside the maximum robot volume, right? It looks like you're going with the tall dimension set, and it also looks like lowering that arm is against the rules.
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Unread 01-02-2017, 14:19
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Re: pic: Spectrum 3847 - 2017 CAD Model: Gamma Ray

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Originally Posted by flemdogmillion View Post
That arm on the front stays inside the maximum robot volume, right? It looks like you're going with the tall dimension set, and it also looks like lowering that arm is against the rules.
That looks like the short dimension set to me.
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Unread 01-02-2017, 14:22
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Re: pic: Spectrum 3847 - 2017 CAD Model: Gamma Ray

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Originally Posted by flemdogmillion View Post
lowering that arm is against the rules.
Agreed

Teams need to make sure they read all rules pertaining to robot size carefully. I would hate to see a robot this well designed get to a competition and then not pass inspection.
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Unread 02-02-2017, 15:50
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Re: pic: Spectrum 3847 - 2017 CAD Model: Gamma Ray

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Originally Posted by lukekaiser View Post
Agreed

Teams need to make sure they read all rules pertaining to robot size carefully. I would hate to see a robot this well designed get to a competition and then not pass inspection.
I'm equally worried about teams building drive base/bumper assemblies to the maximum allowed dimension, and then regretting this decision when they realize all the cool things they could have achieved with a smaller base that enabled over-the-bumper dropdowns. In past years, iterating in new systems was just a matter of finding the space and weight, this year there are going to be a lot of teams boxed out of improving their robots and adding features like Spectrum has because they assumed bigger=better early in the process.
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Unread 02-02-2017, 16:11
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Re: pic: Spectrum 3847 - 2017 CAD Model: Gamma Ray

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Originally Posted by Joe G. View Post
I'm equally worried about teams building drive base/bumper assemblies to the maximum allowed dimension, and then regretting this decision when they realize all the cool things they could have achieved with a smaller base that enabled over-the-bumper dropdowns. In past years, iterating in new systems was just a matter of finding the space and weight, this year there are going to be a lot of teams boxed out of improving their robots and adding features like Spectrum has because they assumed bigger=better early in the process.
I honestly expect the opposite to happen - teams built chasses that were too small so they could do over-the-bumper stuff, expecting a huge advantage, then realizing it was more trouble than its worth and are now sad about the substantial decrease in ball capacity they traded for that decision.

3847's robot is a good example of leaving a conservative amount of space (just an inch or three) for OTB stuff, but I bet others left way more than they should have.
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Unread 02-02-2017, 17:13
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Re: pic: Spectrum 3847 - 2017 CAD Model: Gamma Ray

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Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
I honestly expect the opposite to happen - teams built chasses that were too small so they could do over-the-bumper stuff, expecting a huge advantage, then realizing it was more trouble than its worth and are now sad about the substantial decrease in ball capacity they traded for that decision.

3847's robot is a good example of leaving a conservative amount of space (just an inch or three) for OTB stuff, but I bet others left way more than they should have.
Why does a smaller frame necessarily mean a reduction in ball capacity?
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Unread 02-02-2017, 17:37
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Re: pic: Spectrum 3847 - 2017 CAD Model: Gamma Ray

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Originally Posted by Ty Tremblay View Post
Why does a smaller frame necessarily mean a reduction in ball capacity?
Unless you are expanding your hopper too, which they are.

I really like the design of this robot. I wish we'd have considered a gear pickup on the same side as the fuel intake because I think fuel on the floor will make it difficult to reach gears in some cases.
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Unread 02-02-2017, 23:00
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Re: pic: Spectrum 3847 - 2017 CAD Model: Gamma Ray

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Originally Posted by Ty Tremblay View Post
Why does a smaller frame necessarily mean a reduction in ball capacity?
I mean, if you grow your hopper out over the top of your intake, sure. But if you grow your hopper out in that direction, isn't that just going to stick out the same distance as your over-the-bumper intake? Which then isn't sticking out farther than your robot's frame anymore? Isn't that kind of defeating the purpose then?
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Unread 02-02-2017, 23:32
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Re: pic: Spectrum 3847 - 2017 CAD Model: Gamma Ray

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Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
I mean, if you grow your hopper out over the top of your intake, sure. But if you grow your hopper out in that direction, isn't that just going to stick out the same distance as your over-the-bumper intake? Which then isn't sticking out farther than your robot's frame anymore? Isn't that kind of defeating the purpose then?
I'm not 100% sure I follow. If you're extending your hopper with your collector, you negate the effects of making your frame smaller while still gaining the advantages of an over-the-bumper collector.
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Unread 03-02-2017, 10:03
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Re: pic: Spectrum 3847 - 2017 CAD Model: Gamma Ray

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Originally Posted by Ty Tremblay View Post
I'm not 100% sure I follow. If you're extending your hopper with your collector, you negate the effects of making your frame smaller while still gaining the advantages of an over-the-bumper collector.
The primary advantage of an over-the-bumper collector, other than width (which is significant), is that the leading edge of your robot is your collector instead of your frame and/or bumper. If you move your "frame" (hopper) out just as far forward as your collector, you remove that advantage - your frame could contact a wall before your collector contacts a ball along that wall, etc. If your roller still protrudes out farther than your hopper, then you have to at least some extent compromised your hopper space.

Considering even a full length robot can actuate their front roller so that it occupies the space between the frame and the edge of the bumper, this advantage starts to seem limited to making the collector wider. Again, this is a sizeable advantage, but at the same time, the field will have hundreds of balls on it, and I'm not sure the complexity of this solution is justified for this benefit.

It's not zero benefit, and it's certainly worth exploring for many teams, I just wonder if the tradeoff in complexity and / or ball storage will end up being clearly worth it or not. This isn't the path my team took and it certainly simplified a lot of the robot once we decided not to do this, plus we still have the option to switch to a drop-down "in-the-bumper" intake if we really need that little bit of roller to grab balls against walls.
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Unread 03-02-2017, 10:09
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Re: pic: Spectrum 3847 - 2017 CAD Model: Gamma Ray

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Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
The primary advantage of an over-the-bumper collector, other than width (which is significant), is that the leading edge of your robot is your collector instead of your frame and/or bumper. If you move your "frame" (hopper) out just as far forward as your collector, you remove that advantage - your frame could contact a wall before your collector contacts a ball along that wall, etc. If your roller still protrudes out farther than your hopper, then you have to at least some extent compromised your hopper space.

Considering even a full length robot can actuate their front roller so that it occupies the space between the frame and the edge of the bumper, this advantage starts to seem limited to making the collector wider. Again, this is a sizeable advantage, but at the same time, the field will have hundreds of balls on it, and I'm not sure the complexity of this solution is justified for this benefit.

It's not zero benefit, and it's certainly worth exploring for many teams, I just wonder if the tradeoff in complexity and / or ball storage will end up being clearly worth it or not. This isn't the path my team took and it certainly simplified a lot of the robot once we decided not to do this, plus we still have the option to switch to a drop-down "in-the-bumper" intake if we really need that little bit of roller to grab balls against walls.
The balls are 5" in diameter. This means you can have a 4" collector wheel/drum, bring your hopper out to the outside edge of those wheels, and still have your collector touch the ball before your hopper touches the wall. If you make your collector smaller in radius, your hopper well be even further away from the wall when the ball gets collected.
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Unread 03-02-2017, 10:26
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Re: pic: Spectrum 3847 - 2017 CAD Model: Gamma Ray

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Originally Posted by Ty Tremblay View Post
The balls are 5" in diameter. This means you can have a 4" collector wheel/drum, bring your hopper out to the outside edge of those wheels, and still have your collector touch the ball before your hopper touches the wall. If you make your collector smaller in radius, your hopper well be even further away from the wall when the ball gets collected.
I guess it depends on how much you can compress the ball with your intake. We have been using a rigid collector and found that it works best with surprisingly little compression, so we are mostly "on top" of the ball. This made it a bit trickier. You still touch the ball before the wall but it's a bit closer than I'd like for my team's particular design choice.

I'm sure you guys have done your research and totally know what you're doing here, and I don't mean to doubt that. Just trying to share a data point.
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Unread 02-02-2017, 23:44
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Re: pic: Spectrum 3847 - 2017 CAD Model: Gamma Ray

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Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
I mean, if you grow your hopper out over the top of your intake, sure. But if you grow your hopper out in that direction, isn't that just going to stick out the same distance as your over-the-bumper intake? Which then isn't sticking out farther than your robot's frame anymore? Isn't that kind of defeating the purpose then?
I'm not sure I follow you now. If you expand your hopper when your intake goes over the bumper, then your hopper is not constrained by your frame perimeter anymore. Thus you're minimizing the effects of lost storage space and still getting your full width over the bumper intake, at the cost of now having to designing the whole expanding hopper thing.
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Unread 01-02-2017, 14:23
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Re: pic: Spectrum 3847 - 2017 CAD Model: Gamma Ray

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Originally Posted by flemdogmillion View Post
That arm on the front stays inside the maximum robot volume, right? It looks like you're going with the tall dimension set, and it also looks like lowering that arm is against the rules.
I'm sure they know what they're doing and have read the rules - they're a long standing veteran team who's built high-quality robots for years, who publicly posted a full cad of their robot in week 4.

You don't think it's more likely that you have an inaccurate perception of the robot's dimensions?

It's not against the rules to lower the arm as long as the robot still fits within the volume with the arm lowered (i.e. their chassis is shorter to compensate). This is clearly the case here. If the arm doesn't go past the bumpers then it's legal for it to be lowered even at max dimensions.
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