Driver Skill v. The Robot v. Strategy

[tenfour]

So..what has played the largest part in this years game? Is it driver skill or the machine? Some people have been saying that its the driver sill alone that determines the outcome of the match.

It seems to me that its really a combination of a lot of factors. First of all, the strategy matters a great deal. I am not gonna reveal our secrets here at 696, but we have a very elabroate scouting and intellegence network that we use to decide the best strategy to win each mach. At that, many of our matches are won before we play. The robot is also important. If you compare that years robot with last years on our team, there is a difference. Lastly, driver skill plays a part. We have good drivers who have pratice. This has insured our success in nearly all matches.

What do you think?

-Tanfour

[GregT]

All you need is a drivable robot this year, which is unfortuenent. It's led to a great number of "box" bots. Why build a mechanically impressive robot when you can do just as well with a wooden box and 4 wheels?

Greg

[sanddrag]

Originally posted by GregT
All you need is a drivable robot this year, which is unfortuenent. It's led to a great number of "box" bots. Why build a mechanically impressive robot when you can do just as well with a wooden box and 4 wheels?

There was actually a wooden box-bot at AZ and in a couple matches they were really pounding on 60. Almost flipped them (60) too!

[David Lantz]

I believe that their is a mixture this year in the components that must be used to insure a victory. First, you must have a drivable robot. I think that the key to being able to compete, like stated above, is that the bot must be menuverable.

Second, you must have a strategy, no matter how good your driver is their ain't no way in h@#! that he/she's going to perform well if he/she doesn't know how to utilize the opponent's weaknesses.

Thirdly, comes the driver/driving team. The advice that is fed to the driver is just as important as the actions that they take.

Fourthly, there is luck/fate. I beleve that the outcomes at some of the recent regionals this year would not have been possible without a little of this.


I think that it takes a well rounded team to become a true champion.

[Mark Hamilton]

Strategy was our key to success in the finals at UCF. With SOAP (http://www.soap108.com) we watched two regionals while they digitized them and looked for the winning strategies. We used our knowledge to our advantage and went on to win against all odds. Driver skill also plays a huge role. In the end however your robot is what will make or break you. This year really focuses on the basics in robot design. Fancy stackers etc. can't hold up against a strong chassis with a well built drive train. I dont think less engineering skill is required here, just more attention to detail.

[Marc P.]

It's an impossibility to win without an equal mixture of all three. The most robust bot can't function without a competant driver, and a competant driver can't function without a functional bot. Similarly, you can have the best bot, and the best physical driver, but with lack of strategy, or knowing what to do with both, yields an unproductive team. But since it's virtually impossible to have all three perfectly, the age old engineering question of "better, faster, cheaper... choose 2" comes up, but with "strategy, driver, bot... choose 2."

All three are required for success, but not all are always avaliable on every team.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Without Scouting... it all falls apart.

Power to the Scouters!

[etoleb]

The way I see it, Success = (Driver Skill)*(Robot Functionality)+(Scouting and Strategy)

The ability to move, like always, is a necessity. But your range of abilities, such as stacking, autonomous mode, guarding the ramp, will increase your performance and success in the matches.

However, the ability to utilize your robot is also very important. If you have trouble steering or can't properly operate your mechanisms, a well built robot isn't very helpful. If you can take advantage of your robot's capabilities (drive train, arms, traction devices), have a good sense of field action (score, other robots' actions), and good judgement, you can efficiently make use of the 1:45 of match time to increase your score, and increase/decrease your opponents' score.

Strategy and scouting also play a role, but not as great as the other basic factors. Knowing your opponents' strong and weak points will help plan a basic game strategy, which gives you an advantage over the other alliance. However, preliminary strategys are more of a structure for success, and the execution of the plan has a bigger role than the plan itself. I'm sure all of the drivers out there know that some plans can fly right out the door if something goes wrong.

Since many teams seem to have reduced their robot to pushbots this year, driver skill and strategy seem to be what defines the good from the average. So in answer to the original question, I say driver skill is the most important factor in this year's game.

[Note: I mean success in the sense of performing well, not necessarily winning each match. Winning seems to be a function of success and luck]

This is just my point of view based on my experience as a driver...

Greg

[pbarrett03]

I think reliability is a big part of how the game plays out this year. Mentors have told us to try and build a robot that can be easily repaired, instead of on that is indestructible, in the 6 weeks we have to build. I think that a rugged robot is what will be a key part to victory this year. I found no greater thrill than being able to unlatch our crate, take out our robot and not have to rapidly fix or finish components to get it running. A simple, yet useful design it what will win it. In Arizona, we found that many teams were breaking down and not able to compete in prelim matches. When we were left without an alliance partner, we would score 30-40. When we had an alliance partner there, we were scoring 130+ each round(after multipliers.) Simply getting out there with a rugged robot is key.

While I think the robot plays a huge part, the ultimate fate of the match falls in the hands of the driver. If the driver knows how to use the robot well, it helps. If a driver understands strategy, there is nothing that can stop that team.

[Gabe Salas Jr.]

You all have very good responses, but I believe we are forgetting an important element. Your strategy is vital to your team's success, thus your robot should be able to perform that main strategy efficiently, and the best in its field. Of course many teams have different views on what strategy is better, and should do there best to prove this is so. Of course there are basic qualities that is mandatory to have on your robot for success, such as ruggedness (ability to survive and endure during a match), easily accessable components for fast repairs between matches, and flexibility to adapt in differing game circumstances (same thing with drivers too).

So strategy revolves around your robot's capabilities, ability to adapt to differing circumstances during matches, and the ruggedness, and efficiency of the robot. Another important factor is the drivers. Everything is dependent on your robot. Without it, you have no strategy, no driver, and no way to influence the flow of the match without a robot.

[David.Cook]

I agree with the main points in most of these threads, but I wanted to point out some subtle dependencies.

a) yes, you need to have a strategy and understand the game, but without a rugged, dependable 'bot and a driver who can implement your strategy you haven't a chance. That tends to give more weight to the 'bot and driver.

b) I observed in many matches that a well-executed opening move in auton mode really increased the teams chance of success. It wasn't a guarantee of a win (i.e.: you still need strategy, rugged 'bot and good driver), but it made winning much easier. This means that auton execution is at least a small part of the equation.

c) 'bots that were able to finish on the ramp did have an advantage. I observed many matches where the teams executed well during play, but were not able to convert the 'bot into 25 more points for the win. I think teams underestimated the difficulty in driving up the ramp. This indicates that driver skill may factor higher in the equation.

Lastly, I think each team should develop its own idea of what the winning equation is, and go forward with that as a hypothesis. Then you get to test your hypothesis in the game, and adjust it as necessary. This is part of what engineering and science are all about. You learn a great deal by observing how you assumptions hold up in real-life.

[Amanda525]

It is important, of course, to have a functional robot that can knock over boxes. I do believe a team must have a combination of all three components in order to be sucessful.

However, strategy is important. It seemed at the St. Louis regionals that many teams had forgotten the fact that they recieve twice their opponent's score. I watched most of the matches. I noticed.....

1. Not many teams were defending their non- scoring areas
2. Many teams pushed most of the boxes into their own area
3. Many teams did not utilize the time given
4. Alliances did not seem to have a coordinated attack
5. Box placement: you have to know the other robot's capabilities!
6. Many teams did not have a strategy plan for losing

This was not true for all teams. Many had wonderful strategies!!Yet it was obvious which teams had plans and which teams did not.

The skill of the driver is important, yet I do believe the skill of the driver is amplified through strategy. It is important to have a coordinated "attack" in this stacking game!

Good Luck and hope to see you at nationals!

[Jeff_Rice]

I say programmer skill.

Without the wind, the grass does not move. Without software, hardware is useless.

Hey, I am a programmer!

Truthfully though, I really do think the programming (specifically, autonomous mode) is what defines whether you are successful or not. If you don't get the bins over to your side, it is much more difficult to win.

[Solon Jhee]

I say it has to be a combination between scouting, the machine, and the drivers. You cant win without at least all three. Now im sure there might be more but these are the essentials if you ask anyone im sure they will link back to these three. Maybe im just biased cause im a driver...hehe

[sanddrag]

In order of importance...

1. Robot
2. Autonomous code
3. Driver

And the rest after that. Those three above will get the job done fairly well.