Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use?

[Robot Dude 0101]

Im new to FIRST and I don't know if there is a restriction to what sensors can be used on the robot. I would like to learn robot vision so i was thinking of using the CMUcam on a robot but I dont know if there are restrictions on what sensors you can use.

[Rod]

Originally Posted by Robot Dude 0101

Im new to FIRST and I don't know if there is a restriction to what sensors can be used on the robot. I would like to learn robot vision so i was thinking of using the CMUcam on a robot but I dont know if there are restrictions on what sensors you can use.

As far as I know you can not use a camera on the robot.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by Robot Dude 0101

Im new to FIRST .....

OK, this is a general post to all newbies.

Sit back and take a deep breath.
Look at your team's robot and kit of parts inventory from the previous year.
Learn what was used in previous years, in case it makes a return in 2005.

(If you are a rookie team this could be a problem.)

Most of all.. chill out.
No one knows what exactly is in those kit of parts until you get them in 2005.

Every team gets 6 weeks to build. So, in essence, every team is as stressed as you are going to be in those 6 weeks.

[Cory]

We stuck a camera on our robot at Cal Games in 03' and Sacramento in 2004

We didnt have access to the feed though. Sometimes they'd put it up on the big screen when you got an interesting perspective. We had to make sure that it was not on a frequency that conflicted with any field elements, and that it fit size and weight constraints.

If you're asking to put it on there so drivers can view the feed on a monitor and see something that would normally be obstructed from their view, help line up the bot with something, or any other reason to give your team an advantage, the answer is going to be no.

[Robot Dude 0101]

Originally Posted by Cory

We stuck a camera on our robot at Cal Games in 03' and Sacramento in 2004

We didnt have access to the feed though. Sometimes they'd put it up on the big screen when you got an interesting perspective. We had to make sure that it was not on a frequency that conflicted with any field elements, and that it fit size and weight constraints.

If you're asking to put it on there so drivers can view the feed on a monitor and see something that would normally be obstructed from their view, help line up the bot with something, or any other reason to give your team an advantage, the answer is going to be no.

What I meant was to write a program in C and use the camera as a sensor - not to transmit video. The point of this would be to use robot vision to try and accomplish the tasks.

[Joshua May]

Originally Posted by Robot Dude 0101

What I meant was to write a program in C and use the camera as a sensor - not to transmit video. The point of this would be to use robot vision to try and accomplish the tasks.

I think a camera quold be quite a bit of overkill. If you planed on using this camera like a light sensor, you can use the Banner sensors (or something similar that comes in the kit this year) to follow lines. Really, it all depends on this year's game though.

[Ted Boucher]

Originally Posted by Cory

We stuck a camera on our robot at Cal Games in 03' and Sacramento in 2004

We didnt have access to the feed though. Sometimes they'd put it up on the big screen when you got an interesting perspective. We had to make sure that it was not on a frequency that conflicted with any field elements, and that it fit size and weight constraints.

If you're asking to put it on there so drivers can view the feed on a monitor and see something that would normally be obstructed from their view, help line up the bot with something, or any other reason to give your team an advantage, the answer is going to be no.

At nationals, we picked team 386 as one of our alliance partners. Their coach wore a hat that had a mini video camera that was zip tided to it. This was used to show their coaches point of view so he would not get in trouble if he made a good call from his point of view, but from the stands looked like a bad call. To get back to the topic, they were able to view this camera form a TV in the stands and recorded it with an attached VCR. They said that FIRST had completely cleared it for that use and it was on a frequency that FIRST did not use. So I think that there is no conflict at all with being able to view or not view the feed from a video camera no matter where it is located.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Ted Boucher

At nationals, we picked team 386 as one of our alliance partners. Their coach wore a hat that had a mini video camera that was zip tided to it. This was used to show their coaches point of view so he would not get in trouble if he made a good call from his point of view, but from the stands looked like a bad call. To get back to the topic, they were able to view this camera form a TV in the stands and recorded it with an attached VCR. They said that FIRST had completely cleared it for that use and it was on a frequency that FIRST did not use. So I think that there is no conflict at all with being able to view or not view the feed from a video camera no matter where it is located.

My point was that you cannot be viewing the feed from the camera in the driver's stations, since your drivers would have an unfair advantage.

[Ted Boucher]

Originally Posted by Cory

My point was that you cannot be viewing the feed from the camera in the driver's stations, since your drivers would have an unfair advantage.

Is there anything in the rulebook about not being allowed to view a video camera from a screen inside your player station, if there is please tell me. A video camera in this situation is like using a sensor on your robot. Both will give you the same advantage in the end.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Ted Boucher

Is there anything in the rulebook about not being allowed to view a video camera from a screen inside your player station, if there is please tell me. A video camera in this situation is like using a sensor on your robot. Both will give you the same advantage in the end.

To be honest, I don't have the rulebook memorized anymore, and I'm too lazy to look it up.

There have been questions in the Q&A system before, such as "Can we use headphones to keep in contact with team members up in the stands?" The answer was no, because you were getting an unfair advantage in that they could see all the developing action that is tough to see from the driver station.

Another question was "Can drivers stand on a stool to have a better view of the field?" the answer here was also no.

Keeping in line with those answers, I'd be willing to bet that if you asked if you could have a screen in the driver's station showing the feed from the camera on your robot, the answer is no, for all the reasons I listed above.

Cory

[Robot Dude 0101]

Originally Posted by Cory

To be honest, I don't have the rulebook memorized anymore, and I'm too lazy to look it up.

There have been questions in the Q&A system before, such as "Can we use headphones to keep in contact with team members up in the stands?" The answer was no, because you were getting an unfair advantage in that they could see all the developing action that is tough to see from the driver station.

Another question was "Can drivers stand on a stool to have a better view of the field?" the answer here was also no.

Keeping in line with those answers, I'd be willing to bet that if you asked if you could have a screen in the driver's station showing the feed from the camera on your robot, the answer is no, for all the reasons I listed above.

Cory

The CMUcam isn't a camera that is used to transmit video but rather it gives a digital output so a microcontroller can process the data. It would require a lot of programming to accomplish very little with the CMUcam but it is not a video camera that can wirelessly transmit video like most people here think.

[NoodleKnight]

I use one of the recent versions of the CMU cam on my personal robot. It be one huge challenge to hook up the CMU camera to the RC. The CMU Camera can wirelessly transmit video, I've gotten it to happen once on my robot, but since I got one of their wierd versions, it didnt work, all because the graphics processor was too fast for the camera or something? Basically the thing captured at 12fps and could grab a lot of fuzzy frames.

Even if you did get it hooked up to interpret data or feed live video:
1. It'd be a hard task.
2. The camera consumes a lot of the small resources that are already given. I use acronames GP Board and Moto Board, and when I try to capture frames the robot has laggy response. But then again, I'm not too sure how fast the RC or OI are...

[Adam Y.]

Please post information you know about this sensor's legality, not about the legality of using videocameras on FIRST robots.

Ooo It's not legal. Why would you even ask that question when someone answered before you posted it?

I think this camera is not intended to be used in a "real life" situation, it just seems impossible that it could pack that much versatility and power. Tracking a single color blob just won't cut it.

Im not sure someone is attempting to use the CMU sensor to track objects for a competition that takes place in a park. If he can get the sensor to work in the outdoors then it would work during a First competition.

[Robot Dude 0101]

Does anyone know where to find coding examples for the CMU cam? I have seen some at this site, but I was unable to find more.

[Jaine Perotti]

Originally Posted by Robot Dude 0101

Does anyone know where to find coding examples for the CMU cam? I have seen some at this site, but I was unable to find more.

I was able to find this example, but it is written in PBasic, I think. It also has a video of the the robot with this program in it. It isn't terribly exciting, but hopefully it is helpful.

Here is another resource, which I think has examples for Cerebellum and Handyboard processors. I didn't look at all of the examples though, so I hope that all of this is useful.

Good luck!!

<edit> I just found more examples!! 1,2,3,4,5. All written in PBasic for the BS2. </edit>
<edit2>Another one! my advice: Google it. </edit2>
<edit3> here is the user manual for the CMUcam2, the newest version. This will probably help you understand the code better. </edit3>