Question of the Week!!! (9/26/04)

[Andy Grady]

Hi everyone,

Time for the question of the week...suggested by Kyle from team 45 (Kyle45).

Question of the Week (9/26/04):

What are the biggest rivalries in FIRST?

As always, suggestions are encouraged. Skrach42@aol.com, QuietRiverRage1 on AIM, or PM.

Have fun!
-Andy Grady

[Aignam]

12 Volt Batteries vs. Water Games.

[Kyle Love]

Although I was a rookie this past year, I noticed some rivalries. The biggest rivalry I saw was 71 and 45. It seemed like, to me, that we always ended up playing them in eliminations and wanting to just dominate against them...but we never did. HAHA It's not really a hateful rivalry in my book, but one that mixes things up and makes it fun to watch. Hope I don't "ruffle anyones feathers" with my comments.

-Kyle

[Andy Baker]

Originally Posted by Kyle45

Although I was a rookie this past year, I noticed some rivalries. The biggest rivalry I saw was 71 and 45. It seemed like, to me, that we always ended up playing them in eliminations and wanting to just dominate against them...but we never did. HAHA It's not really a hateful rivalry in my book, but one that mixes things up and makes it fun to watch. Hope I don't "ruffle anyones feathers" with my comments.

-Kyle

Kyle, you are right, there is a healthy rivalry between 45 and 71. Both teams seem to enjoy it. I think that rivalries are good as long as the competition is left on the carpet. When rivalries turn into teams not liking each other, it is not good.

Originally Posted by MATT_kaplan108

45 vs. 71 is the best rivalry in FIRST. They always seem to meet each other in the big matches, and they are always hard bought, battle to the end.

I am biased, but I definitely agree. The 45-71 rivalry goes way back. A few years ago, Brian Beatty and I sat down and figured out just how many times we went head-to-head, but I have lost track. I'll try to summarize the history between these two teams:

1996: Team 71 starts their journey in FIRST, after being mentored by members of team 45. Team 71 is #1 seed at National Competition.

1999:
Midwest Regional: Team 45 allies with team 111. This duo is soundly defeated by the alliance of team 71 & team 27.
Great Lakes Regional: The alliance of 292-45-235 is beaten in the semi-final round by the 71-27-?? alliance after a tough 3-match set. The final match was decided by a DQ.
National Championship: The alliance of 45-111-84 beats the alliance of 221-71-27 in the semi-finals, in a rough set of matches

2001:
West Michigan Regional: Alliance led by team 71 wins the regional
Midwest Regional: Alliance led by team 71 scores a national high score of 710 in the semi-final rounds against an alliance led by team 45

2002:
Midwest Regional: 71-107-519 alliance meets 111-45-79 alliance in the finals, 71's alliance comes out on top after some incredibly bad breaks for the 111-45-79 alliance.
IRI: (hosted by team 234, 45, 393) 71's alliance is DQed in the finals. Head referee is lead engineer on team 45. (that would be me)

2004:
Championship, Archimedes Division: Alliance of 71-494-435 beats alliance of 716-45-1272 in a hard-fought, 3 match final.
IRI: The finals brought together the alliance of 71-980-269 against 234-45-447. The 71-led alliance came out as the winners, again, after a 3-set match

This rivalry is healthy. We help each other out often, as we share tools, experiences, and ideas (not all, but some). Speaking for team 45, we greatly respect our friendly rivals from the north, and we look forward to many more years of competition.

We have never allied with team 71 in the finals of any competition, while we have been against their alliance 7 times. We are 1-6 in this matchup. It sure would be nice to be with these guys for once.

Andy B.

[Joe Matt]

384 has a few good rivalries and a few bad. I'll let you guys figure out them, since I'm more of a positive guy concerning cross-team relations.

[dlavery]

There are rivalries, and then there are rivalries. How about Team 116 against Teams 57, 118, 122, 233, 254, and 330?

To get to the roots of this one, you have to go back in the day. In 1996 NASA supported only two teams in FIRST (Teams 116 and 120), and we had chartered those teams to find out what FIRST was all about. After the experiences of that year we were hooked, and committed to get the entire agency involved with the program. The decision was made to do this as a part of the Telerobotics Research Program that was in place at the time. We met with all the NASA labs that were conducting robotics research, and suckered them in, er, ah, eh, I mean convinced them, that they should all start teams as part of thier ongoing efforts to get more people interested in robotics. To ease any concerns, we also came up with the funding for all their teams, so they didn't have to worry (too much) about how to get the money to get started.

But along with that came a challenge. In 1997 we were starting new teams at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center (Team 57 with Eleanor Roosevelt High School), NASA Johnson Space Center (118 with Clear Creek Independent School District), NASA Langley Research Center (Team 122 with New Horizons Regional Education Center), NASA Kennedy Space Center (Team 233 with Rockledge High School & Cocoa Beach High School), NASA Ames Research Center (Team 254 with Broadway High School, now with Bellarmine Prep) and NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory (Team 330 with Hope Chapel Academy). All of these labs had scores of robotics researchers and engineers at their disposal to help mentor their new teams. Then there was the existing team stuck with NASA Headquarters (Team 116 with Herndon High School) - full of bureaucrats, lawyers and bookkeepers. In theory they wouldn't have a chance against the mentors on the new teams.

So, when you are in a potentially bad competitive situation, what do you do? There is only one answer - make it worse! I issued a challenge to all the new NASA teams: if any of the NASA centers (staffed with really smart engineers, reseachers, and technicians) had their teams beaten in the FIRST competition year-end ranking by the NASA Headquarters (staffed with really devious bureaucrats, lawyers and bookkeepers) team, then we would obviously have to question their technical ability. So, their research funding would be called up for review and they would have to go to the back of the line to submit new research proposals! This would definitely make them take the project seriously and put their full effort in to it!

It was all in fun, but it sure got their attention! And every year since then I get reminded about all the times Team 116 came up with or against any of those original NASA teams during the FIRST season, and the outcome of the matches. Sometimes we win, sometimes they win - but we all win every time. It has been a very good-natured competition, and kept us all interested at multiple levels.

But for some reason, there are not quite as many NASA robotics labs around as there used to be...

-dave

[Kyle Love]

Originally Posted by Andy B.

We have never allied with team 71 in the finals of any competition, while we have been against their alliance 7 times. We are 1-6 in this matchup. It sure would be nice to be with these guys for once.

I agree totally, someday it has to happen. I hope it can happen at nationals next year. I have always wondered how 71 and 45 would to when put together.

-Kyle

[Dorienne]

I don't really think I've seen rivalries, per se. FIRST is about teamwork and respect. Also about helping one another out if anything goes wrong or if one team needs something that another has. Rivalries should not take place, nor should that word even exist in the FIRST vocabulary. That's not what FIRST is about, nor what should occur in FIRST.

[Koko Ed]

That's a tough one because teams work together way too much to really be rivals but in one of my classes at RIT I had a kid who used to be on Team 27 Rush Robotics and they identified Team 68 Truck Town Thunder as their hated rival.
I have a feeling Team 126 gealfirce and Team 121 the Rhodes Warriors are on each otehrs lists as well.

[Mike Schroeder]

team 25 and team 222, although its more of a rivalry of love... we love pounding on each other, and whats great about it is, no matter what happens, its all in good fun,
its like a hs football rivalry w/o the hatred

[JVN]

121 and 173 (Everyone loves Ricksta)
121 and 88 (Everyone loves Aquatread)

No love lost between those.
Gotta love the way my boys from Rhode Island make friends!


There's a whole lotta love in this post... you betcha.

[Cory]

254 and anyone, and 60 and anyone.

It really seems like there's a target attached to their robot, that *everyone* wants to shoot at.

[Aaron Lussier]

The Red Sox and the Yankees....

Ohh wrong forum...

I would say the greatest rivalry is between Team 71 and everybody who hasnt won the national championship.

[Arefin Bari]

Swampthing (179) and SPAM (180)... they are sister teams... and great friends... always helped each other out... but when it comes to competition... its on...

[Corey Balint]

As for Human Rivalries-Me and Fin are duking it out right now. Over a few topics, but they shouldn't be discussed here, or ever again, well at least until I'm dead.

Id also have to say Martians vs Las Guerrillas for one major reason. They might not be actual rivals, but in the past 2 seasons, they've both made it to the national finals(on separate alliances) and both won and lost.