2005 NASA Grant Recipients Released

[Amanda Morrison]

The list of 2005 NASA Grant recipients was released earlier today. You can find the list here:

http://robotics.nasa.gov/2005_sponsorships.htm

Congratulations to those who received support!

[dez250]

Aren't these grants meant for first and second year teams to assist in the formation of a team in their start to help "get them off the ground". Now with that said as i glance at the teams who received grants i am wondering why teams 71 and 93 received these grants.



this post is in no way a bash at either team 71 or 93 or NASA, i just thought these grants were designed for first and second year teams as assistance to start and develop a team.

[Cory]

Yeah... that's what I said too. No offense, but we all know Beatty isn't in need of the money. I have nothing against large, well funded teams, but these grants are for the teams that cant find a way to compete otherwise... to give one to one of, if not THE powerhouse teams in the country is absolutely absurd in my mind.

I can only hope that they recieved it because others didn't apply... if they got it over some rookies or teams that absolutely needed that money, there's something SERIOUSLY wrong with NASA's selection policy.

*awaits the outpouring of negative rep*

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Cory

Yeah... that's what I said too. No offense, but we all know Beatty isn't in need of the money.

*awaits the outpouring of negative rep*

What the heck Cory?
You have specific insight into the funding of team 71?

Personally, I have no clue the financial status of these teams. If they applied for the grants, I'm sure there is a need, or a valid reason.

NASA could have said "no", but they didn't. Obviously the proposal was worthy.

John

[Vince lau]

is there two separate grants? one from NASA and on from FIRST?

[Alex Golec]

Congrats to all the teams who recieved the NASA grants! I have no insight as to why the veter teams may have recieved the grants, but who knows (other than them, of course)- keeping a team alive is a lot of work.

_Alex

[dez250]

Originally Posted by JVN

What the heck Cory?
You have specific insight into the funding of team 71?

Personally, I have no clue the financial status of these teams. If they applied for the grants, I'm sure there is a need, or a valid reason.

NASA could have said "no", but they didn't. Obviously the proposal was worthy.

John

I have nothing against you or team 71 or NASA, John, but when i see a team that can afford 2 regionals (the midwest regional and great lakes regional) and the championship event all ready but get a grant to attend a 3rd regional (that i was advised was a "rookie" grant), which they arent even on the list of competing teams yet (which im guessing means they are wait listed for) it makes me frown. So i am hoping this is either a mix up or NASA had an excessive amount of grants for the Purdue regional which couldnt be used for another event.

[dez250]

Originally Posted by Dez250

Aren't these grants meant for first and second year teams to assist in the formation of a team in their start to help "get them off the ground". Now with that said as i glance at the teams who received grants i am wondering why teams 71 and 93 received these grants.

this post is in no way a bash at either team 71 or 93 or NASA, i just thought these grants were designed for first and second year teams as assistance to start and develop a team.

Ok maybe i should reiterate what i was trying to say in my first two posts and maybe i didnt get my point across. I was not trying to single out any team at all and i was not trying to insult NASA or their decision process. I was merly trying to bring up a point that was never brought to my attention before. As i was under the impression that these NASA grants were for rookie and second year teams as a help to get off the ground, i was asking if that was the case.

Originally Posted by dez250

I have nothing against you or team 71 or NASA, John, but when i see a team that can afford 2 regionals (the midwest regional and great lakes regional) and the championship event all ready but get a grant to attend a 3rd regional (that i was advised was a "rookie" grant), which they arent even on the list of competing teams yet (which im guessing means they are wait listed for) it makes me frown. So i am hoping this is either a mix up or NASA had an excessive amount of grants for the Purdue regional which couldnt be used for another event.

In that post i was asking more of a question that has been brought up before in other cases. If the money is going to be in excess, why doesn't it get used for other NASA regionals where the money may be in more of a demand or why isn't it used to help out the volunteers of that regional.

Now i don't want to sound like a cynical person but some people in this thread should step back please and take a look at the starting posts of the thread, i never meant in any way to insult anyone, any team or any organization, i was just asking some questions and Dave Lavery answered most of them. I am sorry if i did insult anyone and if you have an issue with this i would be more then willing to talk to you about it in private.

[Sean Schuff]

Thanks Dave! (You're pimp!) Thanks NASA! Thanks taxpayers! Thanks FIRST!

Thanks Plexus! Thanks Appleton Area School District! Thanks Fox Valley Technical College!

Thanks Team 93 mentors! Thanks Team 93 parents! Thanks Team 93 members! Thanks Team 93 alumni!

That should about cover it for now.

Sean

p.s. Remember a long time ago (or for some of you not so long ago) when mom sat you on her knee and said "if you don't have anything nice to say about someone, don't say anything at all"? The simple wisdom that comes with age is something that should not be dismissed or taken for granted.

[JVN]

Just because you say "with all due respect" doesn't mean you're showing it.

Just because you say "I don't mean to offend" doesn't mean you're not.

Just because you say "This isn't a bash on anyone" doesn't mean it isn't.

Just because you say "I'm not singling anyone out" doesn't mean you aren't.


Disclaimers are meaningless.

[Travis Hoffman]

Dave, Rich K., and everyone else who has contributed facts to this thread:

Thank you very much for the information. I have always greatly respected NASA for their immeasurable contributions to the growth and expansion of FIRST. None of us are really in the position to question how they choose to distribute their grant money to teams. NASA's selection process is obviously quite thorough and their application procedures are well-defined. Also, good job to those veteran teams who have done their homework and have tapped into this funding source. They have done absolutely nothing wrong. However, based upon what I've read in this thread, I think there IS a problem with this process, one that is causing a lot of unnecessary anger/uncertainty among teams and also a big ginormous headache for Dave and Co. So what's the problem?...

...Inadequate communication from NASA/FIRST to ALL teams that such funding possibilities exist to them.

Based upon prior comments I've read in this thread, I think that all of the following are true:

1. NASA really, really, really wants to give out all the grants it allocates each year.

2. NASA/FIRST would prefer that 1st and 2nd year teams receive the majority, if not all, of the grant money.

3. Sometimes, disappointingly, there aren't enough 1st and 2nd year applicants to snap up all of the available grants.

4. NASA is willing to give "veteran" teams grant money if not enough of the younger teams apply.

5. Some veteran teams are actually in just as much financial need as rookie/2nd year teams and could really use the assistance a grant would provide.

6. The more NASA grants teams receive this year, the better the chances the same or higher quantity of grants will be available to FIRST teams next year.

7. Not all of the veteran teams were even AWARE that this funding possibility was available to them. This causes them to be very surprised when they see other veteran teams receiving these grants. Some people rashly react in an unfortunate manner upon being surprised in such a way.

I believe that effective communication of grant availability to all teams increases the level of awareness, increases the number of grant applications, improves the chances that all the grants will be given out, establishes a level playing field, and removes any hint of special treatment being given to a select few veteran teams. I think we must ask NASA/FIRST (and ourselves) to ponder the following questions based upon the above:

1. Given that NASA is surprised by the low number of grant applications from rookie/2nd year teams, does NASA/FIRST do enough to communicate the existence of these grants to those teams? Why aren't they applying? Are they applying but their applications are incomplete/incorrect? A great deal of rookie teams are very disorganized at first - what more can be done to help them properly comply with all the application requirements? What can members of the FIRST community do to help rookie teams in their area properly complete and submit their applications on time?

2. If NASA grants are being made available to veteran teams, why should those teams have to "do their homework" and "read the fine print" to discover the existence of such funding? Why should they have to be lucky enough to read a single post buried in a Chief Delphi thread to find out about these grants? Wouldn't a more widespread announcement (with periodic follow-up reminders) via the most often browsed communication channels naturally increase the number of grant applications received? Wouldn't this increase the chances that grants are given to veteran teams who are in REAL financial trouble, instead of giving them to more stable teams to do things like "attend a second regional" because the true at-risk vet teams weren't even aware the funding existed?

3. Would a series of FIRST Email Blasts and a major announcement on Chief Delphi regarding NASA grant availability be a more proper, logical, and fair method of communicating this information to everyone? Open communication = no surprises = no backlash or misconceptions when the grant winners are ultimately announced.

I think the NASA/FIRST grant program is an excellent way for the government to spend my taxpayer dollars. However, I feel NASA is obligated to do everything in their power to see that the grant money gets to those teams who are MOST IN NEED OF HELP. For this to happen, it is imperative that all FIRST teams are frequently made aware of these opportunities, and we as a community must do everything we can to see that these teams take advantage of these opportunities. To that end, I would hope that NASA/FIRST re-evaluates their current methods of communicating these funding opportunities to their teams, and asks themselves if any improvement in the process can be achieved. I would also ask that those who may disagree with NASA's current procedures, instead of solely criticizing them for their shortcomings, get involved and see what you can do locally to help get the funds to the teams who need it most. Let's work the problem from both ends until we meet in the middle and achieve the best solution together.

[Joel J]

I don't think I've ever seen an actual discussion on these forums. Just individuals having a bit of ignorance, speaking well before they have even considered any pertinent information; individuals who believe they are more than ignorant and attempt to be the "bigger wo/man," then eventually crumble, yelling out facts that, for all purposes, are as it is (Dave's post, for example); individuals who believe they are more than ignorant and calmly give out information, wishing only to eliminate ignorance from the discussion, but who spontaneously erupt when their additions are seemingly ignored; and individuals who just always have something to say. In any event, all these individuals, from what I have seen, end up yelling, adding not much more than chaos into an already chaotic series of events.

"This is the last straw", "I am fed up", "I'd like to see you take this guff", etc.. Its wonderful to know that we are not all robots here. We each have feelings, they each get hurt at times, and we speak forthright to defend them. Are we still able to remember this throughout, or do we lie to ourselves?

1. NASA, at the end of the day, seems to be donating alot of money to this program. If they were to ever withdraw their support, there would be a noticeable change in the program.
   1. So NASA may think it not fair that we are putting down their system of choosing how to allocate such funds, because the fact still remains that they are donating funds they have no obligation to.
   2. The system to select recipients seems to have been made very objective, because NASA still wants to have some element of fairness in their allocation process, even though it is their money, and they can thus share it however they want.
2. Its definitely a fight for many teams to procure sufficient funds to survive a first season.
   1. So people may feel cheated at times when they see how easily other teams get their money. However, it seems to me that the "easy" is sometimes being confused with a lack of information as to how a team came about acquiring their funds.
   2. Once someone can effectively say that a team received their funding without expending much effort, one has to fall back to the very realistic statement, "life isn't fair." But that can't happen until, again, one can truly say a team receives funding without expending much effort.

In discussions, even this one, when we react in an uncharacteristic way, are we just relenting against the underlying reality of a give situation, and its deviation from what we see as ideal? Can we say that life wants to be fair? Or is it that we want to make life fair? Shall we further personify such an idea, so we can force it into compliance?

It seems to me that there are facts, the way things appear to be, the way it is desired that things be, and the way things actually are. Maybe we are confusing these? Because as I see it, and as I've said before: NASA's money; therefore, NASA's choice. There are other levels here, and other accusations that seem unmerited, in my opinion, but thats for someone else to argue about. I, for one, will just be happy that NASA sponsors as many teams as they currently do, and that they are continually helping new teams and regionals stand on their own two feet.

I was very serious when writing this post. No sarcasm, implicit ridiculing, nothing like that. If its there, then it is, but was unintentional.

[Heretic121]

I'm honestly not trying to spark anything here because i don't really have a set stand point *for myself even after reading everything* but this is where peoples "info" came from regarding the 71 "issue"
http://hammond.k12.in.us/TeamHammond/sponsors.htm
yes it was last updated in February, but that is where people were trying to make a point.

Thinking about this now, i guess i a little discouraged that 71 did get a grant, but on the other hand, they followed everything, and did a great job to receive the grant.

Congratulations to all the teams who received the grants and hope to see you all at nationals.

[Matt Leese]

I've been watching this thread fairly closely as it developed and, personally, I'm more concerned, not by the topic, but by how everyone is acting on this thread.

When I read the Chief Delphi forums, I tend to see very little malice and take very little offense from anything I read. Occasionally I see something that bothers me but my assumption is that that wasn't the intent of the original post, so I ignore it. I will posit that very few, if any, people post on here with the intention of offending anyone.

Now, offending someone can happen accidentally. It's important to recognize that it was an accident. There are really three ways to handle it when you take offense: you can ignore it (this should be your first choice), you can kindly and graciously point out that you disagree (this should be your choice if you really feel the need to respond), or you can attack someone in response (you really shouldn't ever do this).

Unfortunately, in this thread too many people choose the last choice. Usually all it takes is one person to escalate the situation and it's all down hill from there.

In this case, I was bothered enough by this thread that I choose the second choice. I was debating whether or not to post to this thread for quite awhile but finally decided that I maybe could add something to the discussion.

Of course, none of this absolves the original writer of a post from any responsibility. It's important to be careful about what you write. If something may be offensive, try and write it in a way that won't be offensive. It's not hard, it just requires thought.

So please, think before you post. I rather regularly will have a post all typed up and then realize that it really isn't adding anything to the discussion and close the window.

If you feel that this post was directed at you, it probably was. Even if you don't feel it was directed at you, you can probably learn something from it (or possibly I think too highly of myself). Am I trying to offend? No. Will I? Possibly. I hope that everyone can take this is the spirit in which it was intended; that is constructive criticism.

Matt

[n0cturnalxb]

Oh. Wow. I've been away from CD for too long..

BUT! Change of tone/message/whatever (sort of):

THANK YOU SO MUCH to everyone who helped make and approve the selections list for grant recipients. Thanks for taking the time and effort to do something you didn't have to do.

THANK YOU SO MUCH to NASA for providing SO MUCH funding to both FIRST and FIRST teams, for allocating this much money to support something they didn't have to support.

Me.. me.. I'm still elated and shocked and just overly happy because I'd thought it would be impossible for my team to get ANY grant, especially NASA's, seeing as we're a third year team and such. We were $4000 short and would not have been able to participate at ALL this year if we hadn't received the grant... yeah, so what, we now have to raise money for hotel costs - but I'm so, so happy because we get to participate. My friend and I were talking about joining a local team if ours couldn't compete just yesterday (we didn't know about the grant award until this morning) .. we were so worried about not being able to participate in FIRST this year.. but.. yeah.

I've been so excited that I haven't been able to concentrate all day, haha.

Anyway .. yeah. Thank you so much, NASA, for doing this ... and congrats to EVERY single team who received a grant.