YMTC: To Score Or Not To Score ...

[Natchez]

You Make The Call (YMTC) is a series of situations where you are the official and make the call. Please reference specific rules when applicable. The results of YMTC are not official and are for educational purposes only.

Bluabot caps the center goal early in the match then proceeds to the human loading station to get another tetra. Bluabot then holds this recently acquired tetra a few inches over the previously capped tetra for the remainder of the match. During the match, Redabot caps the tetra that Bluabot is holding. Ten seconds after the buzzer sounds, Bluabot is still holding the blue tetra over their other scored blue tetra without the tetras touching one another. Also, the red tetra is on top of the blue tetra that Bluabot is holding. It is obvious to the spectators that if Bluabot and the blue tetra were magically dissolved with FLL-dissolving-dust, the red tetra would score on the center goal.


Based on the 2005 Robot Rules, YOU MAKE THE CALL!

[Stephen Kowski]

how high is the bluabot holding the tetra in the air?

[JeshePye]

I don't see what's wrong with this. =P

I mean, it isn't exactly the most effective strategy anyway ;-)

It IS still legal for the red alliance to attempt to move the blue bot out of the way.

[Cory]

Blueabot's tetra is not counted as scored for two reasons. One: it's not within 6" of the apex of the lower tetra. Two: if your robot is touching your own colored tetra, it doesn't count as being scored.

So, since it was never scored, anything above it isn't scored either, due to it not being within 6" of the apex of a scored tetra.

Valid strategy, Blue wins

[ShadowKnight]

Could this be considered goal tending? I believe that it would. But I have yet to see any kind of official FIRST documentation that disallows for goal tending. As Cory stated, I think it's a perfectly valid strategy and Blue wins.

[henryBsick]

And I thought I was the only one that thought of foolish things like this .
It is bluabots goal...they capped the last tetra on that goal. Redabot capped the blue tetra that bluabot was holding. Personally...I think it would be beneficial for bluabot to dump the red tetra on the blue one it was holding, off, and recap their own tetra before the end of the match. Another possible 3 points and the peace of mind that their arm will not decend after the loss of power due to the end of the match. It is not descoring a tetra either... because it was never scored in the first place.

-Henry

[Jeremy Roberts]

My take on it is that this is a valid defensive play. Since Bluabot's tetra is not, and never was scored then any tetras placed on top of it are also not scored. Redabot needs to either cap on other goals or find a way to make Bluabot move to score on the center goal.

[Elgin Clock]

I'm thinkin' I should memorize that whole <G25> Rule by heart.

Examples of normal game play interaction include:

• Establishing ROBOT position to block access to a GOAL by an opposing ROBOT.

So, Blue is the OWNER of that goal now.

But, in the event that when the match stops, and Blueabot somehow loses the ability to keep the 2 tetras up in the air, and then is touching both blue tetra's at the end of the match, then Red wins the ownership of the goal, as long as it is stacked correctly.

Because, (and darn it if I can't find the ruling, but I know (?) it is in there) a robot cannot be touching a tetra of their own color at the end of the match, or it will not count as Scored or Stacked.

Someone please fnd that rule. I'm having trouble finding it.

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

I'm thinkin' I should memorize that whole <G25> Rule by heart.

Examples of normal game play interaction include:

• Establishing ROBOT position to block access to a GOAL by an opposing ROBOT.

So, Blue is the OWNER of that goal now.

But, in the event that when the match stops, and Blueabot somehow loses the ability to keep the 2 tetras up in the air, and then is touching both blue tetra's at the end of the match, then Red wins the ownership of the goal, as long as it is stacked correctly.

Because, (and darn it if I can't find the ruling, but I know (?) it is in there) a robot cannot be touching a tetra of their own color at the end of the match, or it will not count as Scored or Stacked.

Someone please fnd that rule. I'm having trouble finding it.

You answer is in the definition of "stacked" at the beginning of game rules.
A tetra is basically not stacked unless it's on a goal, or on a tetra on a goal. A tetra is not stacked if it is touching a robot of the same alliance. Therefore, you cannot consider the red tetra "stacked" in this case.

So, in this case, bluebot owns the goal in the end. Redbot can stack tetras all he wants on top of the blue one that bluebot is holding in it's gripper. If bluebot doesn't drop his blue tetras on the goal, then none of those that he's holding are stacked. I don't think it would be "obvious" to anyone that the red one would be stacked if blue dissolved. (the obviousness depends on how blue is holding it over the goal).

Keep in mind this:
ID: 979 Section: 4.2.1 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/11/2005
Q: Regarding the definition of "stacked": If a tetra, which is not at the top of a stack, is being touched (not supported) by an alliance robot, are all higher tetras (not touching the robot) from that same alliance discounted as well?
A: They would not count.

However they have not yet answered this to clarify:
ID: 1237 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Unanswered Date Posted: 1/18/2005
Q: Ref to 979 and 1098, it is not clear for "the opposing alliance". If I'm Redteam, and I am "touching" a red tetra low on stack, will blue tetras above count, or not? Q979 says same alliance tetras won't count, but how about opponents?

But that only refers to when tetras are actually placed and stacked ON a goal, not being held over them. It is not stacked if held over a goal.

[fefie]

What a way to score! I did not think there would be someone else eho could come up with such a unique strategy. It would have been smart for the Redabot to try moving the Bluabot away from the center goal