TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

[Natchez]

Warning: You have entered an it's-so-crazy-that-it-might-just-work zone.

The year is 2006, the day is January 7th, and the hour is 12 noon. After months of anticipation, Dean, Woody, & Dave are on stage ready to announce the '06 FIRST Challenge. Dean starts by saying, "Ladies & Gentlemen, it has come to my attention that you have not been doing your homework. And we ALL know that when you do not do your homework there must be consequences. Here are the consequences.

Consequence #1: (The curtain drops) Welcome to TIPLE REPLAY!"

You instantly think that you must have fallen into a time machine and gone back 364 days; it looks like last year's game. Dean continues, "Woodie & Dave, would you please explain this year's game." Woodie takes charge, "Sure Dean! This year the game pieces are tetras and the teams will try ..." Dave then feels the urge to take over, "Woodie, Woodie, Woodie, we are running out of time, let me try to explain the game. Ladies & Gentlemen, Triple Replay is the same as last year's game with a few modifications. Now Woodie, wasn't that easy." Woodie with a puzzled look, "Sure Dave but don't we need to explain the changes." Dave, "You're right Woodie. Here are the changes. Capping the pink vision tetra in the 25 second autonomous mode is worth ONE TETRA IN-HAND AT THE END OF THE MATCH FOR THE HUMAN PLAYERS TO PLACE ANYWHERE THEY WOULD LIKE. Since the stacks are so high, they will be putting this special tetra next to the goal to indicate the goal to be capped. The next change is that there will be not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7, but 8 robots on the field at a time." Woodie chimes in, "Sorry Dave, we are out of time. Everyone will have to read the rules to discover the other changes. Dean, back to you."

Dean is excited, "Wow, I never thought replaying a game could be so exciting. We ARE really trying to help you with your homework but I don't think just giving you the same game will help that much so there must be other consequences. Buckle your seatbelts, here we go

Consequence #2: Teams that have been in FIRST for more than 1 year, i.e. competed in '04, can not start building this year's robot until January 30th UNLESS they start a new team and give their '05 robot and '06 kit to the new team; in this case, they may start building their robot as soon as the '05 robot & '06 kit is given to the new team and the coach of the new team calls FIRST telling us that they have your kit and robot in hand and will be competing. We will ship you another kit as soon as this happens. The new team CAN use your old robot in the competition if they desire. Another way to get your build season sooner is to give your '05 robot to a rookie team and your build season will be moved to January 23rd. Likewise with new teams, rookies can use robots that were given to them by another team.

2nd year teams, i.e. rookies in '05, may start building their robots immediately but can not use their '05 robots in the competition. We do not feel that they have been around long enough to understand my homework.

Finally, we are so gracious that these new teams will only cost $3,000 each and payment is due BY THE VETERAN TEAM by June 1, 2005. In addition, rookie teams will be given a $3,000 credit (assuming the entry is $6,000 again) to use toward their 2nd year entry fee. There are only 333 extra kits so you better start recruiting.

Consequence #3: 2+ year teams (competed in '04) must ship their robot on February 21st and put down THEIR tools on February 24, 2005 BUT may pick up ROOKIE tools at any time. Rookies and 1 year teams will be able to keep their robot until the competition.

Veterans, before you fill up Dave's, Woodie's, and my inboxes, please remember that you have quoted my words, "Life is not fair," to the rookies many times to explain why they will not do as well in the competition. Well, I say to you, Life is not fair.

Consequence #4:" ... (EDITORIAL NOTE ... I have a few more consequences but do not want to bore you with the details ... you probably get the gist by now)

Yes, it's crazy but it might work to dramatically increase the number of students exposed to engineering. To avoid a record-length post, I'll post the pros and cons that I've thought of in another post.

You will not be the first one to call me crazy,
Lucien

[Natchez]

Pros

• More students are exposed to engineering
• More teams in FIRST ... closer to "filling the stadium"
• Another chance to solve the vision challenge
• More time for teams to mentor during the build season
• Rookie teams have a head start on paying for next year's registration fee
• Game Designers get a year off ... kinda
• Field elements are already built
• FIRST has time to concentrate on other things like VIMS & kit parts
• It lets us play the best game (x 10) in FIRST's history
• FIRST makes lots of money to do other things

Cons

• Regionals will be packed with teams and excitement
• We have to play a similar game
• We have to do our homework
• FIRST has to have 300+ kits in inventory

What pros & cons can you think of?,
Lucien

[angelofsumthin]

i am utterly confused....

[Paul Copioli]

Lucien,

I am sending the paddy wagon ... make that 3 paddy wagons to your house right now.

And I thought you were crazy before that post.

-Paul

[Erin Rapacki]

Woah, that's so crazy it just might work!

[Natchez]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Lucien,

I am sending the paddy wagon ... make that 3 paddy wagons to your house right now.

And I thought you were crazy before that post.

-Paul

Everyone,

Don't listen to Paul. He knows that they are going to do Triple Replay because Woodie told him at the opening ceremonies on Friday. He is just trying to divert attention by calling me crazy.

Paul, CONGRATULATIONS on the WF Award ... it was sooooooo well deserved.

;sdjfao;iu;lk34890723523= NO, NO, NO 02o3ioh;asdfn.,weop9p78 DON'T DRAG ME AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD - I'M ON CD skl;daypoiyhqq;webncvxkjhaq DON'T TAKE ME AWAY 290837h;sda9p8oyhllusdyjklhqlwery

I'm sorry, I have to go now. It seems that 217 nicely cushioned wagons are outside of my home "waiting to take me away." It must have been that Reader's Digest contest that I entered. Wonder what other prizes I won.

Okay, I'm coming ... just let me hit SUBMIT REPLY please,
Lucien

[Ken Patton]

Con: There will be much less inspiration.

Students will have ready access to the solutions to the problem - all they need to do is look at 67, 233, 111, 71, 217/229, 997 and they will know what some great solutions are. Their brains won't hurt cause they didn't need to use them. There will be no transition from "this is impossible!" in week1 to "I know five ways to do this and four of them are easy" in week6. They will miss out on the magic of creating something from nothing.

You could keep the same acronym, but to me, For Information and Replication of Science and Technology just doesn't cut it.

I hope they keep you locked up Lucien Maybe just a couple minutes a day to allow you to throw in a new YMTC now and then.....

I was lucky to meet a couple of your teammates in Atlanta, but was not lucky enough to meet you - I hope to some day.

Ken

[Kris Verdeyen]

Originally Posted by Ken Patton

Con: There will be much less inspiration.

Students will have ready access to the solutions to the problem - all they need to do is look at 67, 233, 111, 71, 217/229, 997 and they will know what some great solutions are. Their brains won't hurt cause they didn't need to use them. There will be no transition from "this is impossible!" in week1 to "I know five ways to do this and four of them are easy" in week6. They will miss out on the magic of creating something from nothing.

Really, though, don't we already have something like this? Every year we see imitations of the most successful drivetrains, and every year we see the teams that created those successes pushing the envelope even further. Look at AndyMark and the kitbot. Are the teams that didn't have to come up with their own solution as to how to drive around any less inspired? We can't have it both ways - either better robots lead to better inspiration, or they don't.

Anyway, I think that the idea that the game is the same isn't really central to the whole concept. (The person who's concept it is might disagree.) Imagine being a rookie team next year, and showing up on day 1 with a working drivetrain and arm. You can see up close how someone else screwed up, and how to fix it. A rookie team starts with a year of hardware under their belt, and the help of a more experienced team to move them along. Allowing them to use whatever parts of their mentor team's robot they want to salvage gives them the chance to be competitive, or at least the chance to see what doesn't work. I think it's great.

Another possibility: limiting the build restrictions to teams who won a regional or a robot award last year. Discuss.

[Mike]

Teams shouldn't be required to create new teams (or do other GP things). They should (and most do) do it out of the love for FIRST and engineering in general.

[the_short1]

i agree with mike.."Teams shouldn't be required to create new teams (or do other GP things). They should (and most do) do it out of the love for FIRST and engineering in general."

although to win ANY awards you basically have to create FLL teams and such .. something we just didnlt have enuf time and people power to do as a rookie team, and i still am boggled how 1511 did it all!<they definately deserved it//.. because if it wasnlt for them i think team 1596 coulda won the rookie award... . they must all drink red bull and go crazy doing 15 things at once!

.. yes! im glad to hear that the game from 3 years ago was a box type game! that means my predictions will probally be right!!.

[dlavery]

But, but, but, but ... if we just re-play "Tiple Replay" (a little bit of a Freudian slip there, Lucien? ) then what in the world will the Game Design Committee do with all that new-found free time between last Monday and January 7, 2006? Since they wouldn't have to come up with a new game, they would have to concentrate on other things - like how to enforce the proposed "no metal on robots" rule.

-dave

[nic_radford]

Since I was the one of the soundboards for Lucien when he got this crazy idea, now I'll tell him how I really feel instead of nodding and smiling when he presented the idea to me. Just kidding.... I do feel it is a novel concept, one worth debating.

There was a thread earlier that talked about what was more important: winning chairman’s or winning the championship’s. Pretty divided. I remember when I was reading it, I went in thinking that the overwhelming response would be chairman’s, and it really wasn't. Now obviously, the sample set (your chief delphi poster) and responses given can't be considered generous enough to get an accurate representation of the true pulse of every Tom, $@#$@#$@#$@# and Harry FIRSTer. But I think it could indicate something stunning. Some teams (more than we'd probably like to admit) aren't really interested in starting teams. I hate to say it, I really do, but they aren't. I believe it is evident in the data. Lucien wouldn't be suggesting these hare brained ideas if we were getting an abundance of new teams every year. I feel 'forcing' the issue would unfortunately make most teams positions more than clear. They wouldn't like it. And I think it as a lot to do with money.

Personally, I feel growing FIRST has to start with us. I do. But I truly believe that FIRST has to create an susceptible environment. It is becoming increasing harder for veteran teams to keep going, let alone now divert these already strained resources to other teams.
I’m not making excuses, but I’m trying to point out realities. FIRST increases prices and then we get called out for not doing homework. I doubt FIRST is scamming us, but if Dean wanted new teams he waive or highly reduce entry fees or kit fees for rookie teams. In the end, this is about money. Very few teams are rolling in it. I’ve personally seen each extreme, and wow what a difference it can make.

[Koko Ed]

If FIRST was going to repeat a game they should take JOe Ross' suggestion and repeat the 2004 game with a few rule change (like the red and blue zone bar).

[Denman]

Originally Posted by dlavery

But, but, but, but ... if we just re-play "Tiple Replay" (a little bit of a Freudian slip there, Lucien? ) then what in the world will the Game Design Committee do with all that new-found free time between last Monday and January 7, 2006? Since they wouldn't have to come up with a new game, they would have to concentrate on other things - like how to enforce the proposed "no metal on robots" rule.

-dave

Lol
They could start on the year afters game, and make it even better than any before, with 2 years you can get a lot more different i would guess.... maybe some wierd and wonderful thing that no one else will have thought of
and no metal? would that include on the electronics, would we have to control our robots through many little hamsters all synchronised and who can understand speech

[tiffany34990]

if they make you do all of deans homework...i predict some teams will die....some areas have so many teams how do you just start a new one...really it should be starting new teams in areas that have no teams we know what states those are...

we can keep coming up w/ teams and at the same time lose a lot of great veteran teams because of funding... our team would love to start a new team in our county but funding is an issues...we may later split s.p.a.m. but not this year or next...

the homework is a good idea and all but is it all possible???... his hw is still the best!