Welcome the Newbies

[Arefin Bari]

I would like to share a little story…

A sophomore, who has been in FIRST for one year, heard a lot about Chiefdelphi, so he decided to register for the forum and become involved in the community. He was warm welcomed on the forum by many. He is a type of student who needs to read the rules few times in order to get it inside his head and remember it. He went through all the Chiefdelphi rules just to make sure that he wouldn’t break any. He searched before posting any threads or even to post something about the topic. One day, he saw a thread about Battlebots and FIRST which was created about 5 months before he registered. He decided to give his 2 cents to that thread about FIRST and Battlebots. Next thing you know, he gets a negative reputation from a respected mentor on one of the most involved and coolest team in FIRST. The message on the negative reputation stated “DO NOT BRING BACK OLD THREADS.”

The reason I am posting this…

We have a lot of newbies who are joining the forum and hoping that they will get the best out of us in helping them. Giving the newbies negative reputation for simple mistakes is scaring them away and not welcoming them on the forum.

What I am trying to prove…

I have seen a new thread few days ago. Another thread with the same topic was posted 6 months ago too. Right away after the new thread was posted, few members posted in that thread saying “Search before you post,” “The same topic exists.” After that I haven’t seen that person on chiefdelphi forum. I am on the forum all the time checking for new threads and new posts all the time.

I am the same Arefin who is the guy in the little story I posted in this thread. The way I was getting bashed by particular people for making simple mistakes I didn’t come back to the forum until the season started again.

Let’s not scare the newbies away, let’s welcome them and help them.

Please share your opinion and post whatever you want, I wouldn’t mind. Because I maybe wrong.

p.s.- Yes, I know there is a similar thread that exists.

Also, read this thread please. It also shares a similar thought.

[nehalita]

I agree, the same thing happened to me. I was almost afraid to post my questions - afraid someone would yell at me and think in their head "stupid newbie" -- i don't think i've even gotten over that fear yet. We all mistakes but that doesn't mean we should be put down. A person can explain what we did wrong, but that's that. The lesson is learned and another person doesn't need to bash them. We're in a positive atmosphere, we should make sure we show it. =)

[tiffany34990]

well i'll just add my 2 cents in....

so everyone lets think about this...we all were newbies once..so may be many years ago for some but yeah we all were there starting out
so come on just give people a break at times...we all have made the same mistakes...reopening old threads, not searching before posting... it's okay...we won't die because someone accidently forgot to search before they posted... we all just live and learn...

well the end of my 2 cents...

CD is a great community of ppl...so newbies welcome and old members i'm still glad you are around to make this place a great one...

[Koko Ed]

One of the problems with this place is that too many people thinks it's there place and attack people who don't fall in line. That's why none of our kids post here. They got thier heads ripped off when they were scouting and now think a majority if FIRST hates them so they don't bother with the place. And these were veteran poster who made them feel that way.

[Anthony]

Although I agree with the general topic (and as can be seen by my post total, I too am timid of posting for fear of it already having been said or just being frivolous) I think the majority of CD is a very welcoming community. Yes occasionally people get upset, but I feel those events are not frequent occurances and for the most part people respect "newbies" even if they do break a rule knowingly or unknowingly.

[Bharat Nain]

OK, the same thing happen to me. It made me stop posting for a while until I got over it and started to make some friends on here. While I know I am guilty of saying "Search before you post" - we all should learn to be more forgiving. Unless a newbie is being really obnoxious we don't have to go crazy and give bad reps. We could give some polite suggestions using the Neutral rep option. If that does not work the moderators know how to handle it. Good plea Arefin.

[Ryan M.]

Originally Posted by Bharat Nain

We could give some polite suggestions using the Neutral rep option.

You still have to be careful with that. I have given neutral rep to someone and even started the comment with "Just a suggestion," but I got back a PM which indicated the user was rather annoyed at having received "negative" reputation. Although I did PM back and explain that it was neutral and didn't effect them either way, I never heard back from them and was afraid I had driven them away from CD. Fortunately, they're still around.

We should try to give a grace period to new comers. If you see someone who joined 15 minutes ago make a new thread when the very same topic was sitting at the bottom of the portal list, just calmly and politely point it out to them and tell them not only to search, but how to do that. As I remember, things like the forums list and even the somewhat more obvious search link were rather hard to find when I first joined. Posting on a new forum, especially one with as many forums and extras as CD can be confusing for a while. Give the inexperienced a chance.

On the other hand, if a person has been making the same mistakes for months, then it might be justified to use a negative rep to try to drive your point home.

Originally Posted by JBotAlan

I'm just curious, what is your criteria for giving good rep? What would 'wow' you enough?

P.S. (I'm pretty new) how do you go about giving rep?

Anything insightful, helpful, etc. Anyone who helps me almost always gets positive. (That means reply to my threads. )

Seriously though, I don't really have a criteria for positive. I rarely give out negative rep. I've only given out 4 negatives on my last 4 pages or rep given and they've all been to the spam bots which occasionally pop up. The last real negative I gave out was in 2004 to 2 people who were insultingly negative of another person's idea.

P.S. Interesting thread, Arefin.

[Jay H 237]

This thread brings up a very good point. Maybe it should be made a "Sticky" here or in the "Forum Help, Comments, Suggestions" area?

Just a thought.

[Matt Krass]

As the above mentioned link shows, I agree with Arefin on this one 100%. Let's welcome the new people so they may learn, like we did from each other. We were all newbies eventually, we all know it, so you know what its like to be new here and trying to get help. We can never make it too easy, and I'm keeping up my aforementioned deal, if I see people being especially welcoming to new people, or teaching (not ordering, commanding or otherwise forcing towards) searching when it's necessary, and doing it tactfully, I'll reward with what little rep I can give. I admit it can be frustrating when five people start threads about the same thing, but there's no reason to scream about it, we have mods to fix that. And when a threads been dead for six months, sometimes reviving it is more likely to get you yelled at then starting a new one. And just because it was discussed once doesn't mean everyone got their say in. New people, inactive ones turned active, there can be a lot of new perspectives that can help. So I see no reason for every topic to only be discussable once.

Those are my $0.02, if it seems brash I apologize, I just want to make sure my point isn't diluted.

[santosh]

Originally Posted by Matt Krass

And when a threads been dead for six months, sometimes reviving it is more likely to get you yelled at then starting a new one. And just because it was discussed once doesn't mean everyone got their say in. New people, inactive ones turned active, there can be a lot of new perspectives that can help. So I see no reason for every topic to only be discussable once.

Those are my $0.02, if it seems brash I apologize, I just want to make sure my point isn't diluted.

I cant agree more. I made a post in a thread that was maybe a year or 2 old, but I didn't really check for dates or anything like that. I got hit with negative rep points from 3 diffrent people within the hour. And yes, What if someone had a discussion 3 years ago on say what type of support your club recieves from your school and how can you gain more support. I mean I was here this year, If I had something that would hlp this topic even though it is kinda old doesnt mean I cant put my 2 cents in because if I say something, others will see that and maybe get something out of it.

If someone is complaining about me posting in something that is old, then don't read it. Maybe that sounds a little mean, but that is no reason to bash some one who has never used this forum before. Much of my team has also had similiar run ins with this kind of stuff and is scared of coming back.

[JVN]

Arefin,
This seems like a pretty valid concern, it can certainly be very intimidating to come into this environment. It is great to see new people come and join, and we should certainly welcome them. But we also have a responsibility to educate them. I would never negative rep someone for posting a thread that has been posted before, that is a trivial "offense"...

However, there are worse offenses...
This also happens to be a place with a great number of "really smart people". Engineers and professionals with a large amount of experience deign to post here and share their wisdom. As my father so frequently told me when I was younger "Listen with your ears, not with your mouth." It is important that all younger members learn to listen, rather than jumping in and offerring opinions and advice that may not be well founded, or worse yet... posting inflamatory accusations or attacks.

When I was a new member back during the 2001 season, I was an idiot. Reading some of my posts from back then makes me cringe. Eventually I learned, and I got better.
Now I can say with authority, that in four years I will look back and say "Wow, I was an idiot in 2005".

Okay... no more ranting... short and sweet:
There are obviously two sides to this...
New members must be welcomed, but they must also learn the ways of this wonderful community.
Veterans need to make sure that in their zeal to educate new members, they do not scare them away.

$.02
John

edit:
Some would argue that even today, I am an idiot.
No names mentioned...
/edit.

[Enterprize]

Originally Posted by JVN

However, there are worse offenses...
This also happens to be a place with a great number of "really smart people". Engineers and professionals with a large amount of experience deign to post here and share their wisdom. As my father so frequently told me when I was younger "Listen with your ears, not with your mouth." It is important that all younger members learn to listen, rather than jumping in and offerring opinions and advice that may not be well founded

I see no problems with ANYONE offering opinions or advice. They are just that, opinions and advice from their perspective. It doesnt require you to listen to or follow their advice, instead it offers a learning potential. If you dont follow their advice (because its flawed) and instead of slamming them for being a newbie and trying to help, tell them why it wouldnt work very well. After all, the newbie WAS just more than likely just trying to help.

They reserve the right to express their opinions and advice just as much as some mentor that's been on the forum for years. I think anyone who says otherwise is just being silly.

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Enterprize

They reserve the right to express their opinions and advice just as much as some mentor that's been on the forum for years. I think anyone who says otherwise is just being silly.

Yes, the ignorant have as much a right to an opinion as anyone.
However, they do not have the right to remain ignorant, and still remain a part of this community.

Maybe I am just being silly.
Crazy me for thinking that the knowledgeable should have more of a right to share knowledge and that maybe the ignorant should keep their mouths shut, until they become knowledgeable. I know I wish I did (it took me a while to figure this out, thanks Dad).

Opinions are like <noses>-- everyone's got one, but nobody wants to
look at the other guy's.
-- Hal Hickman

[AmyPrib]

Call me crazy, but I feel it's a little silly to be giving bad rep for someone who re-posts, or didn't use the "search" feature, but sounds like it's happening a lot...I don't think that's deserving of neg rep, actually I rarely find something that is truly deserving of bad rep. Yes it's frustrating for the rest of us to wade through those posts, but hopefully mods can delete, or close redundant threads, in addition to everyone helping the newbies find their way.

We can always hope that the newbies will read for a while and learn all they need to before they start posting - but this isn't an ideal world. So, we can post those sticky's for reminders, we can PM them individually with a positive encouragement to do something different, or we can post a nice message in reply to their redundant threads, but I think it's unnecessary to give neg rep. We don't want them to leave all together, so we shouldn't be adding to their worries about being yelled at.

Even when the newbies post "over the line" sarcasm, and "ignorant" comments, I don't give neg rep. I PM them with the suggestion that, while they may not mean harm or offense, they should think about how their post will sound and possibly affect others and to consider lightening up. Until the community gets to know them, sarcasm or those types of comments can be offensive and found "jerky", and people that join CD typically are not like that on purpose, so they need to be given a few chances. Hopefully they will heed the advice and learn proper "etiquette" as time passes, as they usually do. I've seen a few that started off really rocky, but have shaped up a bit soon after.

Originally Posted by AmyPrib

Call me crazy, but I feel it's a little silly to be giving bad rep for someone who re-posts, or didn't use the "search" feature, but sounds like it's happening a lot...I don't think that's deserving of neg rep, actually I rarely find something that is truly deserving of bad rep. Yes it's frustrating for the rest of us to wade through those posts, but hopefully mods can delete, or close redundant threads, in addition to everyone helping the newbies find their way.

We can always hope that the newbies will read for a while and learn all they need to before they start posting - but this isn't an ideal world. So, we can post those sticky's for reminders, we can PM them individually with a positive encouragement to do something different, or we can post a nice message in reply to their redundant threads, but I think it's unnecessary to give neg rep. We don't want them to leave all together, so we shouldn't be adding to their worries about being yelled at.

Even when the newbies post "over the line" sarcasm, and "ignorant" comments, I don't give neg rep. I PM them with the suggestion that, while they may not mean harm or offense, they should think about how their post will sound and possibly affect others and to consider lightening up. Until the community gets to know them, sarcasm or those types of comments can be offensive and found "jerky", and people that join CD typically are not like that on purpose, so they need to be given a few chances. Hopefully they will heed the advice and learn proper "etiquette" as time passes, as they usually do. I've seen a few that started off really rocky, but have shaped up a bit soon after.

thats true your right i agree. i think soon enough when sum newbies like be sarcastiv or write ignorant comments i think they will learn from there mistakes, etc sooner or later. Yeah i admit that when ever sum1 would post sumthing that everyone on cd didnt want to hear or just whatever id go along with everyone and give them bad reps and stuff. i dont think thats a way to solve a problem especially to the newbies. although since specific commects tick alot of people off and stuff, people should lighten up on giving them bad reps because it might just really scare them and actually never post on here again.