new from IFI

[Lil' Lavery]

hey look at this cool new wheel from IFI that I found.
http://ifirobotics.com/robot-traction-wheels.shtml

cool aint it?

[sciguy125]

Is that a game hint? Does that mean we'll need more traction next year?

[RogerR]

very cool. now i know what i want for christmas. here's hoping these ship in the kit...

[David Kelly]

Originally Posted by RogerR

very cool. now i know what i want for christmas. here's hoping these ship in the kit...

AndyMark, Inc. is also selling a very similar set of traction wheels.

[RogerR]

Originally Posted by David Kelly

AndyMark, Inc. is also selling a very similar set of traction wheels.

the one feature that makes me like these more is that (it appears) you can attach sprockets on both sides of the wheels. also, it appears that it would be relatively easy to make a hub for these that could keyed, and fit on the inside of the wheel.

[ChuckDickerson]

It also appears that the wheels are flat on the sides so they can be "stacked" to make them 2 or 3 (or more) wheels wide. Another nifty design feature. Hmm, by combining wheels of 1", 1.5", or 2" width you can have just about any width wheel you want in 0.5" increments. I wonder if they will be included in the KoP or how much they will cost. They seem to made from all stamped and bent flat material so they should be fairly cost effective/cheap. Cool design!

[Joe Johnson]

One of the things I like about IFI, AM, etc. offering these kind of cool products is that they bring good solid engineering solutions to many teams that have little chance of rolling their own.

Beatty, WildStang, TechnoKats, Chief Delphi, International Fuel Cell, etc, they have had access to these solutions from day one. Now many many more teams can have them on their robots.

I think it is a good thing.

Joe J.

[Mike Schroeder]

For some odd reason these wheels smell like JVN (and by the way might wanna coinsider some new deoderant dude) :-p

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

One of the things I like about IFI, AM, etc. offering these kind of cool products is that they bring good solid engineering solutions to many teams that have little chance of rolling their own.

Beatty, WildStang, TechnoKats, Chief Delphi, International Fuel Cell, etc, they have had access to these solutions from day one. Now many many more teams can have them on their robots.

I think it is a good thing.

Hear, hear. Let's reward the folks who produce things that we like by buying their products!

Originally Posted by Big Mike

For some odd reason these wheels smell like JVN

Actually they smell like rubber conveyor belting, with faint hints of adhesive. But I can confirm that their design carries the talented Mr. Vielkind-Neun's fingerprints.

Earlier today, I was lucky enough to see and handle the 4" and 6" IFI wheels shown at the link that started this thread. JVN brought them to the Pilot FVC event at St. Louis, and was nice enough to let interested people preview this soon-to-be-released IFI product.

I want some!

[sanddrag]

I'm a member of the small but mighty "I think FIRST is getting too easy" club but I can't say I would really mind these showing up in the KOP. Shiny metal with grippy tread vs dull plastic with slick tread;no real contest there.

[Andrew Blair]

Two supporting facts towards my "these will be included in the KOP" theory:

1. There is no proposed price on the IFI website. If they had a interest in selling them seperate from the kitbot, they would probably try and give teams a taste of the price, and get them out before build so teams can give them a test drive.

2. AndyMark has a traction wheel out. No, I don't think the indiana mafia is telling IFI they can't sell wheels, but IFI would have a better interest in including the 6" or 4" wheels, then selling separately the kind they don't include. As most teams used at least part of the kitbot this year, it would certainly mean lots of teams would buy spares.

But who knows. Maybe John and the gang over at IFI have finished that whole "waterproofing the electronics thing" and wheels won't be needed!

[CJO]

I don't think that these (neccessarily) indicate anything about the game, but a lot of successful teams have used similar (although frequently milled) wheels, indeed, our team never even considered using the KOP wheels before, so this would make it easier for a beginning team.

However, having used the identical tread material before, I can attest that it wears out rather quickly, I hope they make it easy to change.

[Holtzman]

I would tend to disagree with the running trend in this thread. I don't believe these wheels will be in the kit of parts for several circumstantial reasons.

1. If they were going to be in the kit, Why would IFI release them now? Did they release the kitbot chassis last December? Did they release the Kitbot Transmission last December? definitely not. Mind you, releasing the kitbotwould have given away details about certain rule changes(size constraints, 4 CIM's). Releasing these now only gives away the fact that wheels will be useful in next years game. Wow, who could have predicted that?

2. Different sizes - The fact that they offer different sizes at all tells me that they are intended to give teams options... and if there were in the kit of parts, teams would be stuck with whatever size they gave out.

3. Cost - I'd estimate that these wheels are going to retail for somewhere in the range of about $50 usd based on other competitive prices(AM). So say for arguments sake, say they cost IFI $30 to make.

So $30 x 4 wheels x ~1000 teams = A LOT of $$$$


And the reality is, a lot of teams just aren't going to use them. And that means wasted money for FIRST, and higher registration fee's for us.

So, in my opinion, these will not be in the KOP... and just aftermarket products(darn good ones at that). I could definitely see IFI going more indepth into the aftermarket robot component business. After all, a little friendly competition between companies is good for the customer. Helps keep costs down, and quality up.

[Andrew Blair]

I definitely agree with the question of IFI releasing them early, but there obviously is some market interest with the different sized wheels. I have to disagree with the argument of increased costs causing FIRST not to include them. Exhibit A: The kit bot itself. The material in the frame itself has over 1000 square inches of 1/8 aluminum in it, whereas a 6" wheel probably has like 100 square inches of 1/8. so, with two wheels included, that less than 1/5 of the kit bot material. They could probably use scraps!

That notwithstanding, they probably don't actually cost 30 bucks to make ( I know you were just using an example...but I'm in a number mood.) At a high price, which IFI probably won't have in bulk, 1/8" aluminum costs like 9.7 cents a square inch. .097*100=$9.70. Add in 7 dollars for two good 1/2" bearings, and the total is 15.70. I don't know how much wedgetop costs, but lets say 3 bucks to cover a wheel. Add in a bit of hardware and we're still only at 20 bucks. Thats as much as we paid for a spare side rail.

So, assuming IFI only gives us two, with two skyways in front, thats 40 bucks added onto the cost, minus whatever the skyway's cost FIRST. Sounds like a good deal to me for what you would get out of it by helping teams out!

[Conor Ryan]

Here maybe even more of a hint: http://ifirobotics.com/images/wheels/IMG_0152.jpg

is that the...kit chassis?

Oh and on the andymark wheels are 4", 5", and 6" outside diameter whereas the IFI wheels are 4", 6", 8". Other changes that I noticed where the differences in the Tread with (a key player in friction)

Outside Diameter-Width (of tread)
AndyMark
4"-1.3"
5"-1.8"
6"-1.8"
IFI
4"-1", 1.5", 2"
6"-1", 1.5", 2"
8"-1", 1.5", 2"