Pittsburgh and Cleveland Regionals

[Ms. K.]

This year for the first time Pittsburgh and Cleveland are being held on the same weekend which seems to have impacted both of them. Neither one are full with Pittsburgh having 17 openings with 10 pending and Cleveland with 16 openings with 10 pending. Since in the past we try to attend both, this also means that we will have to travel a considerable distance to attend our second regional which will cost more in time and money. Anyone else in the same difficulty? What do you think FIRST will do with these really small regionals? I can't understand why they scheduled 2 regionals in the same geographical area for the same weekend. Anyone know? Ms. K, Team #63

[KenWittlief]

In general, FIRST is moving in a direction where most HS will be able to attend a local regional, and if they have the funds, also attend a larger 'area' regional, and possibly the championship.

the term 'super regional' has been tossed around for the last few years - events with 60 or 80 teams, in a city with major attractions, a great location, a big party on Friday night.

In the past, Cleveland has leaned more towards being one of the super-regionals, and pittsburgh has been more of a local regional.

I dont know if FIRST headquarters is calling the shots on these, or trying to push certain venues to max out, but since FIRST is too big for all teams to attend the championship, this is the direction we will have to take (with the eventual goal of having a FIRST team at every HS in the US).

[Steve W]

I believe that the reason for the dates is mainly due to arena availability. This is something that is really out of FIRST's hands. FIRST would make more money if all of the venues were full so it doesn't make sense to choose to have venues conflicting.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

... In the past, Cleveland has leaned more towards being one of the super-regionals, and pittsburgh has been more of a local regional.

I dont know if FIRST headquarters is calling the shots on these, or trying to push certain venues to max out, but since FIRST is too big for all teams to attend the championship, this is the direction we will have to take (with the eventual goal of having a FIRST team at every HS in the US).

The CSU Convocation Center is a nice event venue. 931 went to Buckeye last year, but we can't this year because the date conflicts with our home regional (STL). Like many teams, our selection of a second regional was strongly influenced by its dates, location, and availability. And when I found out that we could get in at Karthik's event (Waterloo), there was no need to look further!

I see that Buckeye has set their capacity at 60 teams again this year and has paid entries for 34 of those slots, with 10 more shown as pending payment. I think they had 48 teams last year, so this year may be down slightly. I have not seen the venue with 60 teams present, but it did seem crowded to me with 48, so I think a 70+ team "Super Regional" there would strain the arena. I don't know what they would do for pits if a second field (like at GTR) was added.

Many existing regionals have the same kind of venue limitation. STL had 44 teams last year and is expecting 40+ this year. To increase capacity we would need to find another venue.

Sorry for the rambling... My main thought here is that FIRST HQ will probably need to take an active role in planning for super-regionals if they are going to become a realistic alternative for teams that don't go to the Championship.

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

I too have a couple comments on this.

461 attended Midwest Regional in Chicago for a long time, and this year Midwest and Boilermaker are the same weekend. I understand that venues cause issues, and I'm just glad things worked out.

However, a part of me is sad that we won't be at Midwest. Friends are discovered at regionals, and it's a joy to come back a year later and see them again, especially if they don't attend nationals/championships. I am extremely excited to attend Buckeye, but I know that someday I'll want to go see Midwest again.

I am sure new traditions will come, but costs get high as teams have to travel further. Good luck with expenses, and enjoy unfamiliar regionals.

*shameless plug* BMR is fun */plug*

[slickguy2007]

A big change is the fact that their is no NASA grant for the Buckeye regional this year. Last year, we were one of many who attended because we had the funding to do so. The loss of the NASA grant in combination with the Pittsburgh and Buckeye Regional being in the same weekend is detrimental to these two events. I personally really enjoyed Cleveland last year and I am sad we couldn't return this year. Good luck to all those competing there!


GO 1403!!!

[Tuba4]

Ms. K and I have had this discussion several times since seeing the schedule of regionals. It seems there are several cases of geographically close regionals being held on the same weekend. Cleveland and Pittsburgh were the ones that impacted the Red Barons because we have historically gone to both. The exception being last year when we chose to head north to visit Karthik and Co in Toronto.

Actually the situation was even more complicated for the Barons this year. We had previously considered going to the Finger Lakes Regional, but this year it is the same weekend as Pittsburgh and Cleveland. The three regionals that were the closest to us here in Erie, PA were all the same weekend!! Go figure!? How many other teams have been forced to chose between regionals they had previously attended which were now on the same weekend??

I note there are currently 6 regionals with double digit open capacity. I also wonder how long a regional like Pittsburgh can continue with 23 teams?

Also, we have been at Buckeye in the past when there were 64 teams attending. There seemed to be plenty of room then. Just a thought, but if Pittsburgh only has 23 teams registered or pending, why not cancel Pittsburgh and add those teams to the 45 registered or pending in Cleveland?

[KenWittlief]

because for many regionals a good percentage of the teams attending are local:

no chartered bus
no hotel rooms
the students go home at night - less expense for meals.

If you cancelled a local regional, many of those teams could not afford to travel to another city.

I had to check for myself: Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Rochester-NY all on the same weekend. Wow! Thats gonna make teams from our area really spread out this year for 2nd regionals!

[Tuba4]

Ken,

Your point is well taken. However in the case of the 13 teams registered and 10 teams pending, only two or three appear to be from the local Pittsburgh area and would not be traveling and staying overnight. Many of the rest appear to be coming from fairly long distances, so whether the destination is Pittsburgh or Cleveland probably wouldn't matter that much. I guess I was really thinking of the long term viability of two geographically close regionals being held on the same weekend.

And besides, when you come down to playoffs, 3 doesn't go into 23 evenly!!

Seriously though, if Pittsburgh and Cleveland were not on the same weekend, they would both be close to capacity.

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by Tuba4

However in the case of the 13 teams registered and 10 teams pending, only two or three appear to be from the local Pittsburgh area and would not be traveling and staying overnight. Many of the rest appear to be coming from fairly long distances, so whether the destination is Pittsburgh or Cleveland probably wouldn't matter that much.

When we selected Pittsburgh as the Regional to attend, it certainly was not because of the geographical argument. We looked at more than seven Regionals within driving distance and asked which would present the best opportunity for our students to develop and share the skills they have learned through this program. Pittsburgh was the choice we made. If that becomes unviable, FIRST should refund the teams entry fees, and allow the teams to decide whether or where to attend another regional.

Originally Posted by Tuba4

I guess I was really thinking of the long term viability of two geographically close regionals being held on the same weekend.

FIRST obviously made a mistake by doing this, and hopefully they will take this learning forward as they schedule in future years.

[KenWittlief]

it seems like things should balance out in the big picture.

If 150 teams in the Cleveland, pittsburgh and rochester NH 'area' are all planning on attending 2 regionals, and this year they cannot goto their 2nd regional at one of these three cities, then they will have to go somewhere else

which means these teams will be registering at other regionals this year (other cities) - so those other cities events will be filling up faster, prompting teams to travel further to attend Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Rochester as their 2nd regional.

If 500 or 600 teams are funded to attend 2 regionals this year, they have to go somewhere, right?

[slickguy2007]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

it seems like things should balance out in the big picture.

If 150 teams in the Cleveland, pittsburgh and rochester NH 'area' are all planning on attending 2 regionals, and this year they cannot goto their 2nd regional at one of these three cities, then they will have to go somewhere else

which means these teams will be registering at other regionals this year (other cities) - so those other cities events will be filling up faster, prompting teams to travel further to attend Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Rochester as their 2nd regional.

If 500 or 600 teams are funded to attend 2 regionals this year, they have to go somewhere, right?

Or they may just decide to save the money not to go to a second regional?

GO 1403!!!

[Tuba4]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

it seems like things should balance out in the big picture.

If 150 teams in the Cleveland, pittsburgh and rochester NH 'area' are all planning on attending 2 regionals, and this year they cannot goto their 2nd regional at one of these three cities, then they will have to go somewhere else

which means these teams will be registering at other regionals this year (other cities) - so those other cities events will be filling up faster, prompting teams to travel further to attend Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Rochester as their 2nd regional.

If 500 or 600 teams are funded to attend 2 regionals this year, they have to go somewhere, right?

Perhaps. But perhaps not. There are two intertwined factors to be considered. Distance and finances. If the distance to be traveled increases significantly, then the cost will most certainly go up. A team may have funding to go to two of the three geographically closest regionals. If those were all on the same weekend the choice would be limited to one. If the next closest regional were farther away, an extra day of travel and perhaps an additional night or two of hotels could come into play.

To our neighboring teams 291 and 306: When are you leaving to travel to Philly? Are you traveling on Wednesday or are you leaving really, really early Thursday morning? And I would wager that if Pitt and Clev were not on the same weekend that you would have gone to both.

[atomikitten]

I feel a lot of empathy for the teams that don't get to return to regionals and see teams they befriended, but on a lighter note, I'M SO EXCITED TO GO TO PITTSBURGH! Besides, why go to the same regionals every year? It's better to get out there and meet new people!
Cheer up folks, you can start a new tradition.

[Bill Moore]

Well Pittsburgh finally hit 24 teams, the minimum complement for a full playoff structure. Yay!!!

Think of the match cycle times though, and it's very interesting. 6 bots on the field, 6 waiting to go on the field, and 6 or 12 in the queue. You'll be taking your bot off the field and walking right back to the queue.

Build them ROBUST folks, you won't have a lot of time for repairs; and make sure you designate a "Battery Runner" long before you get there. You won't always have time to take the robot back to your pit to replace it.

Oh, and after the competition, make sure to recognize the efforts of your runner. To be sure, it's a menial task, but it will be the most important at competition. Without power, all the other aspects of competition will become lessor (driving, scouting, repair, etc.)

"For want of the nail, the shoe was lost . . . "