To ramp, or not to ramp?

[phrontist]

When I first saw the game this year, I was sure we would have to design around getting up the ramp to be competitive. After all, getting three robots up would get you 25 points (9 high-goal shots!). But the more I think about it, it's really doesn't work out this way strategically.

During the final round, if you are good shooter, you'll want to be firing on your goal (right behind the enemy ramp) right up until the buzzer. It seems as though not going for the ramp would give you considerably more time to score, and it seems as though it wouldn't be too hard to position yourself as to block one of the opposing robots from getting on the ramp while scoring.

The more I think about it, the ramp, much like the lower goals, are rather easy to block, and were probably included in the game to provide rookie scoring options.

[Ryan M.]

That's the way I see it... my team went with the goal of at least being able to get up if need be, but personally I think that it may be more profitable to keep shooting.

[MattB703]

I think that the following are two distinctly different questions;

1) Should a team get up on the ramp?
2) Should a team be able to get up on the ramp?

We decided early on that we wanted to be able to climb the ramp. How often will we use that capability? That remains to be seen.

Matt B.
Team Phoenix

[Sachiel7]

Hasnt anyone else thought of the possibility of shooting into your goal from the ramp?
I sure hope we won't be the only ones...

[Greg Marra]

Originally Posted by Sachiel7

Hasnt anyone else thought of the possibility of shooting into your goal from the ramp?
I sure hope we won't be the only ones...

The only problem with this is you're shooting from the OTHER alliance's ramp, so you have to run all the way back at the end. It could help reduce the shooting, but you can't fire until the buzzer this way.

[Tim Delles]

What i think he means is shooting from your platform (the one you score on for you alliance) to your hoop, which is completely across the field.

If this is right then i do believe it would be rather impossible. Since you can only shoot the ball at 12m/s or ~39ft/sec

[greencactus3]

Originally Posted by Tim Delles

What i think he means is shooting from your platform (the one you score on for you alliance) to your hoop, which is completely across the field.

If this is right then i do believe it would be rather impossible. Since you can only shoot the ball at 12m/s or ~39ft/sec

who said anything about the ball going through the air? bounce shots?
and i htink theres another option of being able to force up another robot. that will bring points too. if some teams will have no capability of going up, maybe another robot can "spot" them

[sciencenerd]

Originally Posted by greencactus3

who said anything about the ball going through the air? bounce shots?
and i htink theres another option of being able to force up another robot. that will bring points too. if some teams will have no capability of going up, maybe another robot can "spot" them

Well, from this thread, it appears that bounce shots won't be much of an option. Specifically, note the sentence that says "When a ball drops to the floor, only about 10% of its original height is recovered." You'd have to be throwing a ball at the floor at a lot more than 12 m/s to get it to bounce eight feet high, if only 10% of the height is recovered!

I agree that this year, there may be teams who are only capable of helping push other robots up the ramp, or being pushed up themselves. However, I don't think this is something that particularly has to be designed for, as to push a robot up the ramp really all you need to be able to do is move. In addition, being able to push robots up probably isn't as helpful as being able to ramp yourself, because if you can only push robots up, and assuming there is another robot on your alliance that needs help being pushed up, you are likely to get a maximum of two robots on your alliance platform, whereas if you could ramp yourself then you could push the other robot up, then move onto the ramp yourself, giving you the possibility of getting... 15 more points, I believe it is?

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by Sachiel7

Hasnt anyone else thought of the possibility of shooting into your goal from the ramp?

We thought of that about thirty seconds after seeing the goal that was set up at our kickoff. Maybe no one else noticed! Shhhhh....

[Dancin103]

Originally Posted by Sachiel7

Hasnt anyone else thought of the possibility of shooting into your goal from the ramp?
I sure hope we won't be the only ones...

With the allowed speed FIRST is giving you, which is like 26.8 mph then
this might be hard to fire from your ramp to your goal!!!
I dont know but this is just an opinion!!!

And to get a ball from your ramp to your goal will deffinately need more speed than is allowed!!!

[MikeDubreuil]

Originally Posted by Dancin103

With the allowed speed FIRST is giving you, which is like 26.8 mph then
this might be hard to fire from your ramp to your goal!!!

I agree with Cassie. I think it would be extremely unlikely that you would be able to shoot from your alliance platform to your opponents goal without violating the muzzle velocity rule. Granted, you could attempt to put a spin on the ball and change the aerodynamics but I think it's unlikely that you will reach 54 feet given the 35 foot reference. For example, the allowed muzzle velocity is 39.4 ft/s, assuming no funny aerodynamics you would have to shoot the ball at about 62 ft/s to hit the goal from the alliance platform.

Originally Posted by <S02>

Muzzle Velocity - No ROBOT may throw a ball with an exit velocity of greater than 12 m/s (26.8 mph). As a reference, a ball traveling at this velocity when leaving the ROBOT at an angle of 30º from horizontal with no spin will travel approximately 35 feet. A robot that violates this rule will be considered unsafe per <S01>.

[Sachiel7]

Ok, I think I need to clarify something here,
At least two people have posted to this thread assuming we're talking about shooting from our alliance plaform into the opponents goal.
To those of you, I encourage you to re-read the arena section of the manual.
You will notice that your alliances scoring goal lies across the field, while your alliances platform is right in front of your driver station. If you wanted to shoot into the opponent's goal, then you'd need to shoot the hoop right behind your robot.

I agree, its a difficult feat, but we want to see if we cant find a way to do it.
(by staying within the rules)

[slickguy2007]

Getting back to the endzone ramp is a tough call this year. Ordinarily, you would be able to scan the field quickly to tell if it advantageous to go back and get the points needed.

2003: You can scan for the number of bins in the scoring zones
2005: Scan the field for triple plays

This year seems to be a lot more tricky. In order to make the call and decide whether to go back or not, it would be very helpful to know your score and your opponent's score. You could argue that you can estimate, I don't know about the rest of you, but I think that 2 mins can go very fast when you are only paying attention to your own robot (which you will really have to). For me, deciding to tell my drivers wheter or not to come back to the endzone for the bonus points will come with experience as I learn the game from on the field.


GO 1403!!!

[Kim Masi]

Originally Posted by slickguy2007

This year seems to be a lot more tricky. In order to make the call and decide whether to go back or not, it would be very helpful to know your score and your opponent's score. You could argue that you can estimate, I don't know about the rest of you, but I think that 2 mins can go very fast when you are only paying attention to your own robot (which you will really have to). For me, deciding to tell my drivers wheter or not to come back to the endzone for the bonus points will come with experience as I learn the game from on the field.


GO 1403!!!

Isn't it true though that because the score is automated, it will be like a basketball game where there is a "scoreboard" where the score is constantly updating? although it may not be perfectly accurate, the drive team will still be able to have an idea as to what the score is...

[Donut]

Originally Posted by robochik52

Isn't it true though that because the score is automated, it will be like a basketball game where there is a "scoreboard" where the score is constantly updating? although it may not be perfectly accurate, the drive team will still be able to have an idea as to what the score is...

FIRST has said that the score will be kept in real time, and that if the big screen with the score is not visible to both teams they will set up displays by the alliance stations that they can see with the score. So, it will make last minute point scrambles a bit easier to decide.

I think the ramp is only a worthwhile idea if your alliance can get 3 robots on the platform and your opponents cannot. If your opponents can as well, running back to your own side to get 25 will allow them no hassle in doing the same thing, negating your score. However, if your team can get the 25, and they may only be able to get 5 or 10, it may be a good idea.