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[JoeXIII'007]

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[Validius]

Excuse my attitude but that really pissed me off. She is out there acting like she is the patron saint of FIRST in Michigan. The typical member of FIRST is a person who the system FAILED. We are those who must wade through the system that was not designed for us, we are the special ed children for whom there is not big $ to fund us.

Michigan has great first teams because of the great sponsors (by that I mean both $$ and the dedicated mentors and engineers that inspire us all). We are the auto capital of the country; it is capitalism and big business (2 things that she most certainly does not like) that had made Michigan the great FIRST state that it is. In the future please do not turn our great event into a sorry political platform!

Oh yea, team 66 and 68, you guys were great alliance partners. I cant wait to see you guys at nationals!

[JoeXIII'007]

Originally Posted by Validius

Excuse my attitude but that really pissed me off. She is out there acting like she is the patron saint of FIRST in Michigan. The typical member of FIRST is a person who the system FAILED. We are those who must wade through the system that was not designed for us, we are the special ed children for whom there is not big $ to fund us.

Michigan has great first teams because of the great sponsors (by that I mean both $$ and the dedicated mentors and engineers that inspire us all). We are the auto capital of the country; it is capitalism and big business (2 things that she most certainly does not like) that had made Michigan the great FIRST state that it is. In the future please do not turn our great event into a sorry political platform!

Oh yea, team 66 and 68, you guys were great alliance partners. I cant wait to see you guys at nationals!

#1. Let's try not to go into politics here, we and I do not want this image to be ripped off the server of the CD forums in any way for any reason.

#2. We invited her here, primarily because she was barking about how Michigan must be on the leading edge of educating students on the improtance of science and technology. After so many years of this regional going on, she finally came. She fulfills her commitment to improving the quality of science and math education.

#3. Capitalism and big business were not the only two factors in getting FIRST off the ground in Michigan. In order for the 'auto' companies to exist, an idea was discovered to create the 'horseless carriage.' That idea evolved into what today we see as automated assembly plants, and the mass numbers of automobiles in which one gets YOU to GLR. The assembly line idea came from Michigan, and that became applied to nearly every manufacturing business in the world, automated or human: for computers, for chips, for everything almost. If there were no ideas, there would be not industry, capitalism, or big business as we know it, and worse, there would be no FIRST.

Now as far as Granholm turning it into a political platform, *sigh* she's a politician, she had camera's and journalists and us in front of her, and so, as her title implies, she literally has to do what she did. That's what the state senator did early Saturday. Even if she had no camera's in front of her, she has to do what she does to make doubly sure her rep doesn't die. She cannot just blow it or take it easy. From there, people like you can make decisions and develop opinions on her. But if she blew it, she would have possibly lost her career all together (and yet another person on the unemployment list (exaggeration)).

In short, politicians play a game, in which we are the referees, and points can be scored by shooting great ideas into the center of our minds.

2 cents from Joe

[Validius]

Originally Posted by JoeXIII'007

#1. Let's try not to go into politics here, we and I do not want this image to be ripped off the server of the CD forums in any way for any reason.

#2. We invited her here, primarily because she was barking about how Michigan must be on the leading edge of educating students on the improtance of science and technology. After so many years of this regional going on, she finally came. She fulfills her commitment to improving the quality of science and math education.

#3. Capitalism and big business were not the only two factors in getting FIRST off the ground in Michigan. In order for the 'auto' companies to exist, an idea was discovered to create the 'horseless carriage.' That idea evolved into what today we see as automated assembly plants, and the mass numbers of automobiles in which one gets YOU to GLR. The assembly line idea came from Michigan, and that became applied to nearly every manufacturing business in the world, automated or human: for computers, for chips, for everything almost. If there were no ideas, there would be not industry, capitalism, or big business as we know it, and worse, there would be no FIRST.

Now as far as Granholm turning it into a political platform, *sigh* she's a politician, she had camera's and journalists and us in front of her, and so, as her title implies, she literally has to do what she did. That's what the state senator did early Saturday. Even if she had no camera's in front of her, she has to do what she does to make doubly sure her rep doesn't die. She cannot just blow it or take it easy. From there, people like you can make decisions and develop opinions on her. But if she blew it, she would have possibly lost her career all together (and yet another person on the unemployment list (exaggeration)).

In short, politicians play a game, in which we are the referees, and points can be scored by shooting great ideas into the center of our minds.

2 cents from Joe

Re. #1

agreed

Re. #2

Let us keep in mind that she is not a legislator. In my mind its just political babble. There is not a single candidate who doesn’t want better schools and more math and science (and art and music and sports...).

Re. #3

You are 100% right, i was outlining the differences between Michigan and other sates.

Re. the rest

Your right... It just bugs me that any politician would be at FIRST at all. I cant se any reason for her to be there other then petty political gain. She does not have a technical background. She has no appriciation of what the teams really accomplish! Politics and FIRST are diametrically opposed no matter which side of the isle you are on. There is no Gracious Professionalism in politics, there is no teamwork. It is all cutthroat tactics to get yourself ahead and sway the sheeple in your direction.

[JoeXIII'007]

Originally Posted by Validius

Politics and FIRST are diametrically opposed no matter which side of the isle you are on. There is no Gracious Professionalism in politics, there is no teamwork. It is all cutthroat tactics to get yourself ahead and sway the sheeple in your direction.

TADA! You have just unlocked the natural way of this world. Wish we could fix that, but that ain't gonna hapen until the end of this world.

Anywho, we'll see you at nationals, unless your going to West Michigan, then we'll see you there! Great job today.

-Joe

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by Validius

Your right... It just bugs me that any politician would be at FIRST at all. I cant se any reason for her to be there other then petty political gain. She does not have a technical background. She has no appriciation of what the teams really accomplish! Politics and FIRST are diametrically opposed no matter which side of the isle you are on. There is no Gracious Professionalism in politics, there is no teamwork. It is all cutthroat tactics to get yourself ahead and sway the sheeple in your direction.

I really mean this in the nicest possible way, and not to insult you, but it is suspect that you have no real-world experience with politics, and have never worked with politicians to get something accomplished. I suggest that you widen your vision a little bit and learn that there are lots of different ways to accomplish many things. There is a lot more to politics than swaying the sheeple in your direction.

It is a tremendous boost to FIRST to have politicians at all levels interested in our program. I have been actively working to get local politicians interested in our program -- both to ask them for help with community support and funding, and to educate them on what we do for the community. Rather than disparaging elected officials, we should heed Dean's suggestion that we build and cultivate relations with them.

[Validius]

Originally Posted by Rick TYler

I really mean this in the nicest possible way, and not to insult you, but it is suspect that you have no real-world experience with politics, and have never worked with politicians to get something accomplished. I suggest that you widen your vision a little bit and learn that there are lots of different ways to accomplish many things. There is a lot more to politics than swaying the sheeple in your direction.

It is a tremendous boost to FIRST to have politicians at all levels interested in our program. I have been actively working to get local politicians interested in our program -- both to ask them for help with community support and funding, and to educate them on what we do for the community. Rather than disparaging elected officials, we should heed Dean's suggestion that we build and cultivate relations with them.

I disagree. Everything that politics touches gets tainted by the politics. I want all politicians as far away from FIRST as possible. Politics and FIRST have nothing in command and any relationahip would be strictly one way (we give them a platform to spout their agenda) .

There could be a place for elected officials but not the govenor or presidant. If there is widespread media coverage then its a bogus political stunt. If perhaps the mayor of Ann Arbor (where GLR is held) came out, thanked everyone for being there said how proud he was of Pi Hi and Huron and left that would be very nice.

Lets keep in mind the #1 rule of politics: money=power. FIRST is a league who is as $$ independant as can be reasonabley expected. Nothing good can come of political involvment.

[Beth Sweet]

I was thrilled to see Gov. Jenniffer Granholm at the event. It kind of goes along with the theory that the biggest players in the fights against cancer etc are those who have been first hand affected by them. Well, now she's been to a competition. Now she's seen the balls flying (including the one at her head in autonomous, whose was that???) and gotten excited about the program. Senator Nancy Cassis has been a champion for FIRST Robotics teams in the state of Michigan for years. Here's the great thing about politicians. Even if they can't get laws passed for the cause, they know a lot of people. Now that she's been exposed, I can guarantee you that she will be talking to people about it. And if that brings more money and publicity to FIRST well than thank you Gov. Granholm

[Validius]

I guess that my entire point is that nothing good can come from pilitics and FIRST getting involved with eacheother. politics has nothing to offer FIRST and FIRST has has only a political soapbox of offer politicians.

Think about it: What good coud come out of it? We have little to gain and everything to loose! History tells us that everything goverment and politics gets involved with goes bad.

[Beth Sweet]

Originally Posted by Validius

Think about it: What good coud come out of it?

I think that I clarified this in my post. The good that can come out of it is acknowledgment of the program and potential new sponsors. Politicians know these people, thus they will be affected by her getting involved.

[Validius]

Originally Posted by Beth Sweet

I think that I clarified this in my post. The good that can come out of it is acknowledgment of the program and potential new sponsors. Politicians know these people, thus they will be affected by her getting involved.

fair enough then, we shal have to agree to disagree. You may be right (i hope you are) but history tells me otherwise.

[Jack Jones]

Ring ... Ring:

Hello - homeland security? Have I got a guy for you!

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by Validius

Think about it: What good coud come out of it? We have little to gain and everything to loose! History tells us that everything goverment and politics gets involved with goes bad.

As you get older and learn more about the world there is an excellent chance that you will rethink the extreme views of your youth. Go ahead and keep testing your hypotheses. You may find out that the world is not all that simple.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Validius

History tells us that everything goverment and politics gets involved with goes bad.

You don't seem to know very much about history.

Government is the mechanism of the people to effect change and has served a valuable purpose in American history. The implementation of better government is really the only reason this country and all that it affords you exists at all.

Democracy was and continues to be a great experiment. It allows you the right to whine about those people and policies you dislike, but it also gives you every opportunity to change them.

Your free to let the Governor use the event as a political soapbox as you've suggested she's done just as you're free to communicate with her to ensure that more comes of her visit. If you think she was there only for political capital, follow up with her office and show them that FIRST is paying attention. Demand results. Get your friends to do the same.

Whether or not you voted for them, you employ public officials and they are accountable to you. It's one of the job responsibilities that come with being American.

[Validius]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

Your free to let the Governor use the event as a political soapbox as you've suggested she's done just as you're free to communicate with her to ensure that more comes of her visit. If you think she was there only for political capital, follow up with her office and show them that FIRST is paying attention. Demand results. Get your friends to do the same.

what results are you talking about? Money? Money does not make a FIRST team, 1549 proved that this year. We were #4 in GLR and we used kit everything except for a pair of snowblower tracks that i picked up for $50 in a small engine junkyard. Everything else was made by students by hand on the machienes. Nothing CNC'd, nothing custom