Pinning? Apparently I just don't seem to understand

[Brindza]

Hello everyone!
Just got back from the Pittsburg regional...dissapointing.

Could someone PLEASE explain to me what is said in rule G24 about pinning. If my comuter is displaying the correct words, i believe that what I think it means is correct.

From the manual that i downloaded it states that you are NOT allowed to pin ANY robot against a barrier or field element for more than 10 seconds.

If ANYBODY out there can help to clear this up for me that would be GREATLY appreciated.


Thank You,
Team 888

[Freddy Schurr]

Yes, once you pin the robot for 10 seconds, the opposing robot must back off. However the robot can continue to pin and the referee will called 10 seconds and then it has to back off.

[Brindza]

Thank You

Also, is G24 the final version of that rule or is there an update somewhere that i missed

Team 888

[Greg Marra]

The rule also very explicitly states "on a carpeted surface" since the ramp and the platform are not carpeted, pinning on these for longer than ten seconds is allowed within the rules (say, to get extra points by keeping an opposing robot on your platform).

[Donut]

Originally Posted by Greg Marra

The rule also very explicitly states "on a carpeted surface" since the ramp and the platform are not carpeted, pinning on these for longer than ten seconds is allowed within the rules (say, to get extra points by keeping an opposing robot on your platform).

On a note to that rule, pinning a robot at the front of the ramp (where you could push them up) still has the 10 second rule apply. It was called at the Arizona Regional and will probably be called elsewhere. I missed the part about pinning against field elements.

[Brindza]

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!

Then could you PLEASE find an explanation for WHY TEAM 888's ROBOT WAS PINNED ON THE CARPET AGAINST THE RAMP FOR OVER OVER OVER OVER OVER I'll repeat that in case you missed. OVER

40 SECONDS

IN THE THIRD GAME OF THE SEMIFINAL MATCH AT THE PITTSBURG REGIONAL.

Thank You
Team 888

[Brindza]

Oh, I forgot to mention,

and not a SINGLE penalty awarded to the opposing alliance.

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

I'm sorry to hear you were pinned for that time. Could you please elaborate as to whether or not you spoke with a referee about this after the match, or whether you let it hang? Sometimes a question to clarify a penalty decision can make a big difference.

[Brindza]

Yes we did ask the referee.

Myself and my co-driver went to the head referee after the game.

She told us that since it was a field element and not a barrier the rule did not apply. We ended up tying the game somehow though and i did not have time then to look up the rule (since I could remeber the exact wording) beause we were being rushed to redeploy our robot.
I did not look up the rule until i got home (BAD IDEA)
from what i read she was completely wrong.

A member of our team did video tape the game so when i go into school on monday i will be able to post the video and you can see exactly what happened.

888

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

I'm sorry to hear about that penalty. Unfortunately, by not calling the rule there, there isn't much that can be done. Better luck next time.

[Ethulin]

Our drive team carries a rule book in their cart, just for a case like this.

[Brindza]

Originally Posted by Ethulin

Our drive team carries a rule book in their cart, just for a case like this.

That is a great idea, I will definently have one with me at all times at Annapolis. It was just in the heat of the competition and watching the refs discuss the final score for 5 minutes that I assumed(I know, I am never supposed to do that) that one of them had refered to the rulebook before making a final descion. I will know better next time.

[The Lucas]

Originally Posted by Brindza

40 SECONDS

IN THE THIRD GAME OF THE SEMIFINAL MATCH AT THE PITTSBURG REGIONAL.

I literally had a front row seat for this occurrence (front row of padded chairs right along the red ramp in question) so here is how I saw it:

Redabot spun 888 around so that its shooter was not facing the goal. Then Redabot pushes 888 against red ramp then backs off slightly so that 888's 4 wheels (2 drive, 2 caster) are on the carpet and 888 is not simultaneously making contact with Redabot and the ramp. 888's drive wheels were closest to Redabot and their casters were closest to the ramp. This wheel configuration along with their bumpers made it such that 888 could drive back and forth but not up the ramp or turn 90 degrees.

Later, one of the refs started a pinning count presumably after realizing 888 could move but could not get out of this situation. I would estimate over half the bots could have gotten out of that situation by driving up the ramp or turning. Redabot backed off immediately, but later pushed 888 up the ramp to score the points that would tie that match.

I am interested to hear how refs like Stu would interpret this situation since there is no simultaneous contact between the bots and ramp, which is a easily escapable situation for many robots.

[coldabert]

Allow me to give you guys some more information to consider:
Earlier in the match, we were intentionally rammed by another bot while setting near the ramp. They rammed us so hard that it bent the 1/8 inch plate that our front-left caster was mounted to. This disabled our robot from being able to climb the ramp without another robot pushing us. Once, the opposing alliance realized that we could not climb the ramp, they pinned us against a ramp that we could never have climbed (and by "pinned" i mean positioned their robot so that we could not move away from our position, and we were making contact with them when we tried to drive away from them. And... there is no specification in the rules about how close or far away from robot you must be to pin them. ).

[chrisinmd]

I happened to be standing behind the alliance station during this match, and I witnessed our driver, Brindza, repeatedly trying to drive forward and backwards, to no avail. In my opinion, when your robot cannot move, this is a pin.