#1 seeded teams

[Tim Delles]

So i decided to go through each regional just to see how many number one seeds went on to win the regional. well out of the 18 that have been played so far, only 9 #1 seeded teams have won the regional. Now this makes me ask does it pay to be the number 1 seeded team anymore?

BAE
non-#1 seed won

NJ
#1 seed won

VCU
non-#1 seed won

Pacific NW
non-#1 seed won

Arizona
non-#1 seed won

Buckeye
non-#1 seed won

FLR
#1 seed won

Florida
non-#1 seed won

GLR
#1 seed won

Pittsburg
#1 seed won

St. Louis
non-#1 seed won

UTC
non-#1 seed won

Boilermaker
non-#1 seed won

Chesapeake
#1 seed won

Detroit
#1 seed won

Mid-West
#1 seed won

Peachtree
#1 seed won

SVR
#1 seed won

*** this data came from the FIRST website. If it is incorrect please let me know or post it***

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by Tim Delles

Now this makes me ask does it pay to be the number 1 seeded team anymore?

You ask, "does it pay to be the number 1 seeded team anymore?" The answer is, "it depends."

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by Tim Delles

Chesapeake
No Data

#1 seed won.

[Kims Robot]

I think that the serpentine draft this year is definitely evening out the alliances. Its making for much more interesting matching, and its making it almost impossible to have the #1 seed be an overpowered alliance of three amazing robots. It would be interesting to compare this data to previous years with the regular draft.

So now, being the number one seed means you get the first pick and the last pick, so unless your robot is completely unstoppable, my guess is other alliances still have a chance against you.

Now what would make it even crazier would be if they did a serpentine draft, and then set #1 to play against #5 instead of #8 (ie 1vs5, 2vs6, 3vs7, 4vs8). If FIRST is trying to even out the alliances, I think they've succeeded, and to be honest, I think I like it more than I thought I would!

[Tim Delles]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

I think that the serpentine draft this year is definitely evening out the alliances. Its making for much more interesting matching, and its making it almost impossible to have the #1 seed be an overpowered alliance of three amazing robots. It would be interesting to compare this data to previous years with the regular draft.

So now, being the number one seed means you get the first pick and the last pick, so unless your robot is completely unstoppable, my guess is other alliances still have a chance against you.

Now what would make it even crazier would be if they did a serpentine draft, and then set #1 to play against #5 instead of #8 (ie 1vs5, 2vs6, 3vs7, 4vs8). If FIRST is trying to even out the alliances, I think they've succeeded, and to be honest, I think I like it more than I thought I would!

I will see what I can do about getting some information from a few years ago competition and comparing it to this years. I just have to find the time.

[Gene F]

While I do think that the alliance selection process has made a difference and made the alliances a little more even, I thnk the bigger impact is the three on three seeding rounds. It is now much more difficult for a single team to control the outcome of every match they are in. I have heard a lot of stories of teams that say they have as a team failed in almost every match and still end up being a seeded team because their alliance partners in the seeding rounds have carried them. This makes the scouting process all that much more important. I like it!!

[Joe Ross]

Not only does the #1 seed win 50% of the time, none of the other seeds are even close.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

Not only does the #1 seed win 50% of the time, none of the other seeds are even close.

Are you going by the teams seed before alliance selection or their seed at the time of selection?
Your chart has no 5 seeds winning, but the winning alliance at UTC was the 5th seed alliance. They were headed by 177, who seeded 8th, but due to picking within the top 8, ended up picking 5th.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Ogre

Are you going by the teams seed before alliance selection or their seed at the time of selection?
Your chart has no 5 seeds winning, but the winning alliance at UTC was the 5th seed alliance. They were headed by 177, who seeded 8th, but due to picking within the top 8, ended up picking 5th.

That's correct, I did it by original seed, as that is what teams can control. (It's also easier to quickly gather that data )

[Beth Sweet]

Here's my take.

#1 seed only matters if you know what you want. You can be #1 seed all you want, but if you have bad scouting data and thus select either an inefficient or uncomplimentry partner, there's no point.

I think that it has been made tougher this year for #1 seeds because of the new selection process. As I've voiced before, it's not my favorite change however probably does make things more fair.

[MikeDubreuil]

Here's my 2 cents...

The #1 seed is still dominant because their first pick could be the #2 seeded robot. When 2/3 of an alliance are composed of the best robots at the regional it's guaranteed success.

I think FIRST should re-instate the rule that requires the top 8 seeded teams to pick teams outside of the top 8. Adding that rule back in and keeping the new serpentine rule should make for some exciting finals.

[Tytus Gerrish]

in florida atleast, the #2 seed turned down the #1 seed and they both ended up getting eliminated. if they had teamed up it would have been over right there.

[Tim Delles]

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

Here's my 2 cents...

The #1 seed is still dominant because their first pick could be the #2 seeded robot. When 2/3 of an alliance are composed of the best robots at the regional it's guaranteed success.

I think FIRST should re-instate the rule that requires the top 8 seeded teams to pick teams outside of the top 8. Adding that rule back in and keeping the new serpentine rule should make for some exciting finals.

So are you saying that the number 1 and number 2 seeded teams are the best at the regional/championships? If so ( I hate to say it again) then maybe you should think back to Nationals in 2003 when Miss Daisy picked Buzz who was seeded 17th, and the techno-ticks who were seeded 60th. they went on to win thier division. Also if you look at the number 1 seed from their division they picked truck town who was seeded 25th and then team 9 who was seeded 35th. The reason that in a lot of regionals the number 1 seeded team picks teams in the top 8 is because they have worked with them and they work well. But thier normally aren't 70 teams that they can choose from to work with.

Last year 175 and 33 picked team 108 who was seeded 79th. and they won thier division.

Also 56 and 254 picked 64 who was seeded 63rd and won thier division.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

The #1 seed is still dominant because their first pick could be the #2 seeded robot. When 2/3 of an alliance are composed of the best robots at the regional it's guaranteed success.

Yes, but it takes three robots to win this game. The best two robots at a regional will never beat three good robots in this game.

[lukevanoort]

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

I think FIRST should re-instate the rule that requires the top 8 seeded teams to pick teams outside of the top 8. Adding that rule back in and keeping the new serpentine rule should make for some exciting finals.

I agree, this would greatly increase fairness. Lets say there is a imaginary team 666 (I'm not satanic, I just happen to know this number is not in use) at the imaginary Pork Ridge regional. 666 is considered one of the best, if not the best team at Pork Ridge. However, they get a little bad luck in their last match and ends up seeded number 7. In alliance choosing, under last year's method the #1 seeded (very good) team 1337 could pick 666 then another strong team, 13. This alliance would be nearly unbeatable. With this year's system, 1337 could pick 666 then have to wait a while till they get to choose again. This time 13 was snatched up by another alliance, so they have to go with 990, another good team, but not as good as 13. Now they will be the favorites to win, but not unstoppable. Then, with a serpentine system and the old rule, 1337 can't pick 666, so they pick 13. 666 picks a really good team, 803, then when they get the choice again, they pick 193. 1337 then picks 990. Now the alliances are more even, and there aren't any super alliances and the winner is uncertain, assuming all the captains did their homework and chose good teams.