Week 4: So how's that Field Working?

[Jack Jones]

Please read Dr. Joe's intro FIRST:

Greetings from Milwaukee.

THE GOOD:
Put the Wisconsin Regional down on your "A" list as an event to attend in the future. They've done a great job in planning. nice venue - large pits - smooth flow - on time - great matches.

THE BAD:
It's a FIRST event -> It's all good.

THE UGLY:
The automatic scoring system.

[sanddrag]

I noticed a few scores up in the 300 or so range on the realtime scoring on the video screen. They took it off for a couple matches. Team numbers on the alliance stations have been messed up a few times and the emcee called them the wrong number.

For corner goal incursion, they are giving a DQ and a disable, which is quite interesting. Doesn't hurt the team any more but it does hurt the alliance more.

Other than that is seemed okay.

[Paul Copioli]

Nope. I didn't call the wrong number. The numbers on the screen are wrong and I am looking at the teams' badges to get the team number. Basically, they are not setting the new team number until after we announce the teams.

[Jack Jones]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Nope. I didn't call the wrong number. The numbers on the screen are wrong and I am looking at the teams' badges to get the team number. Basically, they are not setting the new team number until after we announce the teams.

You were in LA too, Paul? Man! You shure get around!

[jparkteach]

Here in NYC the automatic ball counting system is working very well. The only times there were problems was when there was human error (i.e. coaches putting their hands in front of the camera, human player forgetting to remove balls from the coral, teams driving their robots into the corner goals). They have two people (one ref, one real-time scorer) counting every goal just to make sure.

[Ryan M.]

The BMR was surprisingly good after seeing so many other regionals having problems... the only major differences that I noted can from penalties, which obviously aren't counted by the automatic.

[Jack Jones]

Originally Posted by Ryan M.

The BMR was surprisingly good after seeing so many other regionals having problems... the only major differences that I noted can from penalties, which obviously aren't counted by the automatic.

The auto scores in the data were adjusted to account for penalty and ramp points.

surprisingly good

Show us your numbers.

They have two people (one ref, one real-time scorer) counting every goal just to make sure.

Which do they believe? And, show us your numbers.

If the auto scorer gets the autonomous winner wrong - does anybody catch on? If they do, and correct the ten points after the match, how do they change the fact that both teams played the game based on false information?

[Ken Leung]

Here at the Davis regional, we have 6 additional volunteers in ref shirts each in charged of a goal on the field, whose sole role is to count the balls going into them every round.

They each have a white board and marker on their hand, and they write down the number of balls that went into the goal when autonomous mode and the match is over. And each time, our head ref, Stu Bloom, standing in front of the scoring table, have the ball counters hold up their white board to show him what their number is, so he can record them on the little sheet and hands to the scorekeeper to calculate the official score.

So far all day yesterday this system has been working out really well for us. The ball counters are amazing, and they never shift their focus away from the goals. Stu did a great job organizing all these!

[Don Wright]

The main problem is not the final score. That is easily corrected. It's when the autonomous mode is incorrectly scored and the wrong team is declared the winner and goes on defense first.

This has happend to us twice...both in regional finals. One time we were declared the winner and one time the opposing alliance was. Both times were wrong and both times the wrong team went on defense first.

Sure, the 10 point bonus is easy to correct. But what about the change in strategy a team would do based on the outcome of autonomous mode?

The inability of the system to have humans override the autonomous mode scoring to get the winner right is something I hope gets corrected before Atlanta.

[Tomasz Bania]

Originally Posted by Don Wright

The main problem is not the final score. That is easily corrected. It's when the autonomous mode is incorrectly scored and the wrong team is declared the winner and goes on defense first.

This has happend to us twice...both in regional finals. One time we were declared the winner and one time the opposing alliance was. Both times were wrong and both times the wrong team went on defense first.
Sure, the 10 point bonus is easy to correct. But what about the change in strategy a team would do based on the outcome of autonomous mode?

The inability of the system to have humans override the autonomous mode scoring to get the winner right is something I hope gets corrected before Atlanta.

Yes, I clearly remember that during Final 2, but one thing still makes me unsure...

Since the balls are sometimes travelling VERY quickly through the goals,
are the Counters 100% dependable? I know they are very good, but sometimes the outcome of the match (F 1-2 in Detroit) would have made a possible difference and a possible win if the autonomous was in our favor.

I don't doubt the counters accuracy, I just don't like the effects of not having 100% accuracy.

Tomasz Bania

[Don Wright]

Originally Posted by Tomasz Bania

Since the balls are sometimes travelling VERY quickly through the goals, are the Counters 100% dependable?

Balls aren't counted as they go through the goal, only as they go down the tube into the can... Hence, if balls bounce out, they aren't counted.

[mtaman02]

And for the NYC Regional:

Thanks to John Park the scoring system worked extremely well. John was very optimistic after all the work was done to insure everything worked properly, Now if only the other lil bugs got worked out, like that lil bug that wouldn't allow scores to be entered in for the elimination rounds, we went like 3 - 4 rounds w/o any scores.

And for the field, the only problems we had with that was the field border lexan panels kept coming off by the gates due to extreme robot driving, no matter how many zip ties we put on the panels they still kept coming off =). Thanks to Mike C. and the Repair team the panels were fixed during the matches so that the robots and balls wouldn't have an easy exit.

I must say the volunteers at this regional worked extremely hard this year =)


BTW I knew I forgot something last nite. John all the Field Electronics Cables were put into the Field Electronics Box along with all the DB15 Cables =)

[petek]

Originally Posted by Jack Jones

The automatic scoring system.

If I read this right, you're saying the wrong alliance won about 1 out of 5 matches? As an FTA (NJ, Pitts & Philly) I find this very worrying. May I ask where the data comes from?

[Jack Jones]

Originally Posted by petek

If I read this right, you're saying the wrong alliance won about 1 out of 5 matches? As an FTA (NJ, Pitts & Philly) I find this very worrying. May I ask where the data comes from?

Data is from the official score sheet - the standby, hand entered, hard copy.

NO - what it says is...
Assuming the human count was accurate, and had the auto-count been used as the official score, then the wrong alliance would have won 20 percent of the time. What it also say is that the wrong team went on offense after autonomy 1 of 5 times. There was no way to override it.

[Tomasz Bania]

Originally Posted by Jack Jones

Data is from the official score sheet - the standby, hand entered, hard copy.

NO - what it says is...
Assuming the human count was accurate, and had the auto-count been used as the official score, then the wrong alliance would have won 20 percent of the time. What it also say is that the wrong team went on offense after autonomy 1 of 5 times. There was no way to override it.

I was watching Sacramento and that one was so bad that they had the teams reverse there sides as the teams were put by the computer on the wrong side. Than In Finals 2, the Robots Attacked!!! jk. The robot's autonomous were activated during setup and 1 robot (I believe 955's) rammed into the corner goal and it looked like it could have been knocked over if it was hit any harder.

Good Luck!
Tomasz Bania

P.S. The awards ceremony happened only 4 1/2 hours later there than they were supposed to. (CEREMONY RIGHT NOW)