The Ugliest Trend Yet

[Koko Ed]

Chiefdelphi is a great resource for all of FIRST to use over the years and has grown into a community that has taken a life of it's own. It has provided answers for those who needed it and advice for those who seek it. It is a place to get information about teams and robots that you would not be able to get on the general FIRST site and is a great place to meet up with friends and make new ones.
There has always been controversy because of how tightly moderated the page is (which I think has gotten much better than it used to be. They let alot more go than they used to). Believe me I have been to alot of message boards that are not as tightly moderated, If at all (my first message board the lead moderator said it would be more cost effective if he didn't moderate the page at all and all hell broke out after that. I nearly left when someone had the nerve to create a racist joke thread. I had never been so broken hearted over something done over the internet in my life and I surfed the wretched page of Stormwatch for a school paper before). This place had been relatively free of trolls over the years.
Ever since Silencenomore graced these pages I have noticed a dark turn for the worst that has been haunting these pages recently, where actual trolling occurs. Team members now post anonymously separate from their team and use this freedom to now post vicious accusations and rants against other teams for perceived wrongs or just use it to be rude and obnoxious.
This is a resource that everyone in FIRST can use and enjoy not just to post here but hundreds more just come by and read what has been posted. It just sad that alot of selfish individuals have decided to come here to start trouble because they think that this page is their toilet to dump their grievances against other teams and individuals in FIRST and don't even have the courage to do so with thier team mentioned with them because not only would their team suffer the consequences of their actions but they would most likely be dealt with for what they have done.
What's the solution? I don't know if there is one and what really disturbs me is it can only get worse (much worse, trust me on that) and the luster on the CD could be lost forever and that is truly a sad thing indeed.

[Wayne C.]

I looked up that user name and like you Ed I am appalled at what has been written . This is not a radical political forum. It is a place for kids to go and have fun with robotics. There is no room for hate mongering here.

I think the CD management should not allow users that fail to identify with a team. If they are alumni they have past teams to identify with. If they are new to FIRST they should develop a relationship with a team and be taught gracious professionalism before they are allowed to register.

At least if they have a team association there would be a contact person who could make them accountable. If these bozos dont have the courage to identify themselves and be accountable for their actions they are no more than losers and not worth having the right to post here.

WC

[Rich Wong]

I have reported this user's postings in the past.
I think a "Three strike and you're out" rule should apply.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Wayne C.

I looked up that user name and like you Ed I am appalled at what has been written . This is not a radical political forum. It is a place for kids to go and have fun with robotics. There is no room for hate mongering here.

I think the CD management should not allow users that fail to identify with a team. If they are alumni they have past teams to identify with. If they are new to FIRST they should develop a relationship with a team and be taught gracious professionalism before they are allowed to register.

At least if they have a team association there would be a contact person who could make them accountable. If these bozos dont have the courage to identify themselves and be accountable for their actions they are no more than losers and not worth having the right to post here.

WC

Actually compared to the people who are posting anonymously now and calling out teams for supposed transactions that may or may not have happened. Silencenomore was just really obnoxious but not as directly hurtful to other FIRST teams. To just call out other FIRST teams and make accusation against them without proof not only discredits them for what they have done recently but ever. Especially when these fools probably haven't put in anywhere near the time and effort into the FIRST community that they have.

[lukevanoort]

Those Silencenomore posts were appalling, but after a while they became darkly funny. I'm amazed anybody would say that sort of stuff in a public forum. Most of the other people I've seen racking up negative rep tend to have somewhat of a point but say it in the wrong way. That was just incredible, Dean Kamen trying to subvert the American economy? As for the whole issue, I haven't seen much of this, but that could be because I spend most of my time in the technical forums where it's seems that less of this occurs. Maybe the solution isn't to restrict more, but make a anonymous shot out where you can just say "I hate team 666" (<- not a real team) it could be a moderated one to keep people from being really vulgar or specific, so they couldn't say "Team 666's driver is a stupid #@&$ and %#@$ moron." However, I may just be nuts and this would make the problem worse,
I don't know.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by lukevanoort

Those Silencenomore posts were appalling, but after a while they became darkly funny. I'm amazed anybody would say that sort of stuff in a public forum. Most of the other people I've seen racking up negative rep tend to have somewhat of a point but say it in the wrong way. That was just incredible, Dean Kamen trying to subvert the American economy? As for the whole issue, I haven't seen much of this, but that could be because I spend most of my time in the technical forums where it's seems that less of this occurs. Maybe the solution isn't to restrict more, but make a anonymous shot out where you can just say "I hate team 666" (<- not a real team) it could be a moderated one to keep people from being really vulgar or specific, so they couldn't say "Team 666's driver is a stupid #@&$ and %#@$ moron." However, I may just be nuts and this would make the problem worse,
I don't know.

The worst thing I have ever heard was a troll telling a friend of mine on another page who had previously tried to kill herself before that "Next time you try to kill yourself use a gun. It'll make it more memorable." I reproted them and got them banned.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Luke, I don't think a forum on CD where people can post whatever bile they want to spew would really futher the forum's purpose as a place for teams to spread FIRST's message, help other teams, etc. There isn't anything positive that could come out of a forum like that, save for the person spewing the bile. We'd be better off suggesting to them that they type up their rants in notepad, print them out, and rip them to tiny shreds to work out their obvious anger.

At any rate, I don't know that there are many good technical solutions to anonymous posting. Forcing someone to identify with a team will just make people pick teams at random. And it's not like you can make people send Brandon a photo id so they can get an account. Worse, any sort of lengthy verification process we make people go through will just make it tougher on people coming here cause they need help quickly. Banning and blocking will just force the posters to start multiple new accounts, though it might give them a time out to think about what they've said. About the best solution I can think of would be something akin to AOL's warning system where one user can warn another and restrict the rate they can post at. This has problems as well, but any purely techincal solution is going to have lots of problems.

I think we just have to deal with the fact that anonymity happens on the internet, and trolls are a fact of life. And make it abundantly clear to said trolls that they really aren't FIRST or CD material if they can think such things about their fellow teams.

[nehalita]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Forcing someone to identify with a team will just make people pick teams at random. And it's not like you can make people send Brandon a photo id so they can get an account. Worse, any sort of lengthy verification process we make people go through will just make it tougher on people coming here cause they need help quickly.

He has a point...

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

bout the best solution I can think of would be something akin to AOL's warning system where one user can warn another and restrict the rate they can post at.

I like the warning system idea but it kind of mirrors the point of the rep system. Also, that privelege can be misused also.

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

This has problems as well, but any purely techincal solution is going to have lots of problems.

well said.

[sw293]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

The worst thing I have ever heard was a troll telling a friend of mine on another page who had previously tried to kill herself before that "Next time you try to kill yourself use a gun. It'll make it more memorable." I reproted them and got them banned.

That's just sick.

In any case, I see trolling as a cost of having an open forum. I would venture a guess that trolls rear their heads occasionally in almost every online community, and there's no reason why a FIRST robotics forum should be any different in that respect. The rep points system generally prevents trolls from having a significant impact on the perception of the teams or individuals being trolled. Most of what is written here is productive.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by sw293

That's just sick.

In any case, I see trolling as a cost of having an open forum. I would venture a guess that trolls rear their heads occasionally in almost every online community, and there's no reason why a FIRST robotics forum should be any different in that respect. The rep points system generally prevents trolls from having a significant impact on the perception of the teams or individuals being trolled. Most of what is written here is productive.

Chiefdelphi is an oasis in the harsh desert of the internet.
The internet is the last "wild frontier" and a pretty mean place to be. You just have to make the choice of how you wish to conduct yourself and how you want to take things really. As it has been said:No one can really make you feel inferior without your consent.

[coastertux]

I agree with all of you. Every forum has some trolls, but the admins and users here at ChiefDelphi do a great job banning them/deleting posts when the trolls come around. If you find a post offensive, use the report feature and the admins will take care of it!

[Cody Carey]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

The worst thing I have ever heard was a troll telling a friend of mine on another page who had previously tried to kill herself before that "Next time you try to kill yourself use a gun. It'll make it more memorable." I reproted them and got them banned.

That is absolutely horrible. I wish that more could be done than just banning him from the website... Something like a beating with a bamboo cane.

More on the topic, however... What is considered a troll?
Upon seeing the subject of this thread, I automatically went to the members section and sorted them be rep, I then went to the end of the list. The person's name was Amateurrobotguy. I read all 86 of his post summaries, and didn't see anything too trollish. If there was something in an unabridged post of his, please point it out to me. I also noticed that there were a ton of people with red bars who, when I read their posts, had said nothing to offend anyone openly.
I guess what i am asking is:
When you see red rep bars do you automatically think "he's a troll"?

[lukevanoort]

Originally Posted by Cody C

That is absolutely horrible. I wish that more could be done than just banning him from the website... Something like a beating with a bamboo kane.

More on the topic, however... What is considered a troll?
Upon seeing the subject of this thread, I automatically went to the members section and sorted them be rep, I then went to the end of the list. The person's name was Amateurrobotguy. I read all 86 of his post summaries, and didn't see anything too trollish. If there was something in an unabridged post of his, please point it out to me. I also noticed that there were a ton of people with red bars who, when I read their posts, had said nothing to offend anyone openly.
I guess what i am asking is:
When you see red rep bars do you automatically think "he's a troll"?

I did the same thing within the first few weeks after I joined and was quite puzzled too. As to the bashing forum, you guys have good points, that's a bad idea. Here's another one (not a bad one, hopefully, but another idea) how about venting in another manner? With a computer. I don't know how many of you used the Dr S BATESO utility that came with SoundBlaster about ten years ago, but it said a few one line responses, and was very useful for venting anger. I know there are several Java applets that do this floating around, you could just get on it and start venting your anger, without troubling anybody. And, since many bad decisions are made under pressure, in the heat of the moment, this could help. I relative of mine used to teach in a prison and, according to her, most of the murderers were normal people who happened to get drunk, or really really angry and a gun was nearby. On CD that gun is the "New Thread" or "Post Reply" buttons. Since we can't remove the gun, giving a person a method to let off that steam makes them less likely to use it in a bad manner.

[Katie Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Cody C

Upon seeing the subject of this thread, I automatically went to the members section and sorted them be rep, I then went to the end of the list. The person's name was Amateurrobotguy. I read all 86 of his post summaries, and didn't see anything too trollish. If there was something in an unabridged post of his, please point it out to me. I also noticed that there were a ton of people with red bars who, when I read their posts, had said nothing to offend anyone openly.

Sometimes, a user will post a thread that is way off-topic, offensive, or just not allowed. If that thread is deleted (and in the case of Amateurrobotguy, they were) it will no longer show up on post list you look at on their profile. Also, sometimes people will give negative rep for offensive things in signitures (like one current sig that says, "Admit it; we all want to sabatoge the other teams' robots.") and since we can't see old sigs, there might have been something there, too.

[Billfred]

It was once said by Ricky Quinones that "that Martus character always has a way to take care of them."

If you see a post that is Just Plain Wrong, report it. Fire off a red dot, if you think it's deserving. Just don't let those with less-than-ideal goals scare you off--a loss of veteran knowledge, particularly on a site like this, would be devastating. (We have to have the old-timers around, after all--those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. And I don't mean HIST 101, either.)