The Rise and Fall of FIRST Teams through time.

[Nawaid Ladak]

Intresting disscussion came up today, has anyone noticed any good teams all of a sudden dissipear..... or anything of that nature.

And through that nature, has any team reammerged through the ashes.

[KathieK]

I think that FIRST teams, like any organizational structures, have life cycles. So at times they may be at their peaks and at other times may be in a rebuilding year. It happens with sports teams all the time. Students, mentors and sponsors will come and go and greatly influence the team's ability to sustain itself.

[Nawaid Ladak]

No, i mean dissappear as in vanish from FIRST, like not regester or attend any regional.

or better yet, the callapse of a team ant the rising of anouther from the ashes.

[RoboMadi]

i haven't seen any team disappear, but there are teams out there who are facing financial difficulties and are coming back after a while.
I really didn't remember the team number, but i talked to a team in Chesapeake; they participate every two or three years now and then.

As far as rising goes...........Our team has done at least a two year work in just one year and has risen way beyond that i thought it would. The dramatic effect we created in the community, results in more money coming in, and us reaching to wards the higher goals or "aiming high"...hahaha

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by FreedomForce

Intresting disscussion came up today, has anyone noticed any good teams all of a sudden dissipear..... or anything of that nature.

And through that nature, has any team reammerged through the ashes.

FIRST is very expensive and it take the perfect storm of dedication from the students, teachers, school, business and engineers. If one group falls off the team can easily die. That's why there are only seven (actually 6. 250 is an offshoot of 20 from what I understand) origianl teams left in FIRST and why they are so valuble to FIRST. If they die out ithat is history that is lost forever.

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

I am familiar with at least one time that for whtever reason fell apart and then came back very strong as "rookies" who actaully had experience. It happens, because big-name sponsors fall out, or a team loses their facilities.

[Jon Jack]

64 and 192 I think are good examples of a team disappearing and reemerging.

64 has split into 39 and 1013. I'm not sure on the exact reason's they split. 192 didn't participate last year and has come back this year as a Regional Chairmans Award winner.

[Koko Ed]

The most noted team that disappeared is 144 Who (FIRST's first Chairman's award winner and national champion) who pulled the plug in 2003. They rose again as 1038 strong as ever and talking to them last year in Atlanta may even consider setting up a spot in the HOF in memory of 144 ( a good amount of their mentors were a part of that team so there still is a connection and it's a great thing to do from a great group of people).

[KenWittlief]

ok, I know of one FIRST team tree.

Kodak sponsored Fairport HS in Rochester NY in 1997 and 98. In 99 they decided to sponsor Marshall HS in Rochester.

So a team of parents and teachers at Fairport scrambled to find a new sponsor that year, and formed a new team with Gleason Works.

A few years later they could not get a teacher/facualty adviser, so they formed a combined team with the Churchville Chili HS waaaaay on the other side of the city.

The following year Gleason/Fairport was one team again (with a Fairport HS teacher). Im not sure if it was the same year but Churchville/Chili HS formed its own team, and is now a powerhouse with Bauch & Lomb for a sponsor.

So from the original Kodak/Fairport team in 97 we ended up with 3 teams in the Rochester area: Kodak/Marshall, Gleason/Fairport, and B&L/ Churchville Chili.

regarding dissapearing - the Fairport team technically did cease to exist when Kodak moved to Marshall. It was a major effort to find a new sponsor the same year, so we didnt miss a season. Im sure there have been other teams who went through the same situation and did miss a year.

[AcesPease]

Here are a couple examples of disappearances:

The team from Plymouth Mass (124?) used to host a big off season event called the Rumble at the Rock. I believe they tried very hard for a Chairman's award, didn't win for a couple years running and then pulled up stakes and joined the battle bots.

(This team is my reason why I get a little nervous when we discuss what we should do to do better in the Chairman's award race. I think they got burned out . I would prefer to stay in FIRST than to stress out over awards)

Closer to home. The team from Windsor CT did well their rookie year, disbanded after a difficult second year, and then joined the other team from Windsor CT: 571, Paragon. The combined team is a very strong team now

Some private schools in the area have had teams and then disbanded. The Kilowatts and I believe a team from Mrs Porter's school Those teams were small like the original 571, and perhaps if they had found a neighboring public school to team with they could have kept up the program.

FIRST is a tough program to maintain at a small school. We added Suffield to Windsor Locks in 1998 and it has helped a lot. Its nice to have enough students to have a drive team, pit team, scout team and spirit team without every student having to do everything.

[Kims Robot]

73 is a perfect example of this. I think it was 1995-1997 that it was Harris Corp and Edison Tech. I think it was 1996 that they (Tigerbolt) won the Championship (then Nationals). Anyone from that day remembers the fear of the little tigerbot that dominated that game. They died in 1997 due to funding issues (Harris is a military company), and logistics with the schools, as well as engineer burnout (only 5 engineers).

In somewhere around 1999 they were picked back up by RIT, and then a year or so later gained sponsorship by B&L. They re-rose as team 73 once again and continued through 2005.

This year, they lost their funding again, but their students & mentors were adopted by our team, and we are pushing to get them back up and running with their own funding again next year. The rise and fall of this team has been truely difficult, but hopefully we will see their return next year.

[miketwalker]

I know that some teams found that FIRST didn't suit them as well over time based on the student population passing through. I know of at least one team which focused it's resources into Battlebots IQ (whom I will refrain from statin, because I know some people have big issues with BBIQ which I do not understand, but this isn't the thread for that discussion). Although some things are contradictory, it still motivated the kids and for a cheaper cost. For the cost of running one FIRST team to go through a few regionals and national, they were able to host 10 Battlebots IQ teams each consisting of 4-10 members. I am by no means saying BBIQ is better than FIRST, but I know that this situation applies with some things such as BEST and other competitions.

Although the competitions aren't necessarily as intense, for many teams the extreme fundraising often needed for a FIRST competition simply isn't possible. The introduction of VEX will be fulfilling many of these problems, but even still, I know that at least I would much rather be on an FRC team than VEX... simply for the fact that you must build such a large machine out've such a wide variety of items. VEX is a great cost alternative, but can't support such a large team and even though it inspires students, the full size FRC competition is just something that's really cool to watch in general with the whole 5' 120lb robot aspect and will always have more power because of it's more media-friendly side.

Either way, back to topic, teams will always continue to rise and fall. Fortunately, there are alternatives for teams who can't afford FRC. Although not substitutes, I think that the inspiration people get from a FIRST competition motivates them to continue with other programs (VEX, BBIQ, BEST, etc.) when they can't afford the cost of FRC which still keeps the domino-effect going.

[Andy Baker]

Originally Posted by AcesPease

Here are a couple examples of disappearances:

The team from Plymouth Mass (124?) used to host a big off season event called the Rumble at the Rock. I believe they tried very hard for a Chairman's award, didn't win for a couple years running and then pulled up stakes and joined the battle bots.

(This team is my reason why I get a little nervous when we discuss what we should do to do better in the Chairman's award race. I think they got burned out . I would prefer to stay in FIRST than to stress out over awards)

I think you are referring to team 23, Plymouth North High School. They hosted Rumble at the Rock, and did win the Chairman's Award in 1998. Also, lead teacher Mike Bastoni won the WFA the same year. After 2000, this team left FIRST to try other things. Bastoni still wanders into ChiefDelphi, as shown in this thread..

Team 23 was an inspiration to many other teams, and greatly deserved the recognition that the Chairman's Award gave them back in 1998.

Andy B.

[dk5sm5luigi]

Originally Posted by AcesPease

The team from Plymouth Mass (124?) used to host a big off season event called the Rumble at the Rock. I believe they tried very hard for a Chairman's award, didn't win for a couple years running and then pulled up stakes and joined the battle bots.

That team was Team 23 - Boston Edison & Plymouth North High School. They won the Chairman's Award in 1998 and Mike Bastoni their mentor won the Woodie Flowers Award that year too. That year their Chairman's Award was a tool box filled with trinkets and information about their team. I believe that was the last year the didn't have a size requirement and well before the Chairman's Award became essay only. They were a very active team and were the ones who started the entire concept of off season competitions.

They left FIRST for many factors. They did go join BattleBots and even started up BattleBots IQ. Some of the people from that old team are still involved in FIRST with other teams or through volunteering.

[Mark Pierce]

Didn't 16 - The Bomb Squad drop out for a year or two due to finances or other reasons?

Closer to home 35 - last incarnated as Sigma Squared rose from the ashes for the 2003 or 2004 season, only to cease competing soon after.

I'd like to see 391 - Grand Rapids Central resurrected. They won the WMR Chairman's Award in 2003 but lost teacher or school support this year. It turns out some of their members are now assisting with 904.

My favorite restored team is 1164 in Las Cruz, NM. They competed two years, stayed together doing things other than FRC for 2005, and came back this year, even winning the AZ Visualization Award.