Poll - Legalities

[Steve W]

Thsi poll is to find out what people think of following rules. Be honest please.

[Koko Ed]

Not all rules are popular or even fair, at times but they are necessary and they maintain order. Yes there are people who do not play by the rules and are able to get away with it. Repeatedly at times. That doesn't make it right.That it apparently gives cause to other to break the rules just makes it all the more wrong. And as the saying goes:what goes around comes around. You may get away with it today. You may get away with it tomorrow. You may even get away with it next week but your day will come when you won't and you will be made to regret it. Just ask Floyd Landis is he found cheating prosperous.

[Ryan Dognaux]

I don't like the options for this pole.

It's okay to break rules if I'm being picked on? Where did that come from?

According to this pole, there are only 3 situations in which rules can be broken and it be okay - thinking it's completely okay 100% of the time, breaking them when being picked on, or just that we as FIRSTers shouldn't ever break rules.

I'm going to say this again - we've all broken the rules at one point and another in our lives. There are many, many exteremes and this poll cannot possibly capture all of the situations.

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux

I don't like the options for this pole.

It's okay to break rules if I'm being picked on? Where did that come from?

According to this pole, there are only 3 situations in which rules can be broken and it be okay - thinking it's completely okay 100% of the time, breaking them when being picked on, or just that we as FIRSTers shouldn't ever break rules.

I'm going to say this again - we've all broken the rules at one point and another in our lives. There are many, many exteremes and this poll cannot possibly capture all of the situations.

Picked on could mean many things that is why I used it. Prices too high, no money, can't get part, don't live near video store, need to get some where fast, why am I being restricted, and many many more excuses. I am a black and white type guy that, yes I do wrong, believes that there should only be 2 answers but I tried to expand it a bit for others.

[Marc P.]

If I remember history correctly, the United States was founded on the grounds that people have the right to certain freedoms not otherwise granted under what was then the law.

Later on in history, the Civil Rights movement was an open disregard for what were the rules of the time.

In the majority of cases, the rules are important and should be followed, but there are a few cases where the rules are only in place to benefit a few, and breaking them does no real harm, or can even be a good thing for the greater good.

[Cody Carey]

There are times when rules must be broken, and times that it won't matter if they are. Have you ever crossed the street outside of a designated crosswalk? I'm sure that everyone has, but that doesn't mean anything. It's still against the law. does that mean that it is unconditionally wrong to Jay-walk? No.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Cody C

There are times when rules must be broken, and times that it won't matter if they are. Have you ever crossed the street outside of a designated crosswalk? I'm sure that everyone has, but that doesn't mean anything. It's still against the law. does that mean that it is unconditionally wrong to Jay-walk? No.

But if you get hit by a car while doing so do you have the right to sue or even complain?

[Cody Carey]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

But if you get hit by a car while doing so do you have the right to sue or even complain?

No, I don't have the right to sue, but that doesn't matter because I only cross the road when no cars are coming. In that instance, it was O.K. to jay walk. THERE ARE NO UNCONDITIONALLY CORRECT LAWS.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Cody C

No, I don't have the right to sue, but that doesn't matter because I only cross the road when no cars are coming. In that instance, it was O.K. to jay walk. THERE ARE NO UNCONDITIONALLY CORRECT LAWS.

I've seen people who have walked straight out into the road when cars were coming. I've heard one guy tell his friend "It's OK. He'll stop or else we'll own him."
Or you're kids will if you don't survive the impact.
There is one unconditionally correct law. It's called the law of physics.
Such as two objects cannot occupy a space At the same time.

[Cody Carey]

I'm sorry, I should have been more specific. no Governmental Law, I took for granted that nobody would take that wrong.

[Ryan Dognaux]

I think that we're debating something much bigger than breaking rules. We're essentially trying to debate the very essence of what is right and what is wrong. We're going to have some very different opinions on that and I don't think a general resolution can really be reached.

My opinion is that you should do the right thing. What you think the right thing is will be different for everyone, since again, "the right thing" could be defined as a lot of things for a lot of reasons. One thing I do try to do everyday though, even if it is small, is to "Do a Good Turn Daily." Yes, that is the Scout Slogan, and it's a pretty easy and basic thing to do. If everyone did one good thing for someone else, the world would be a pretty friendly place.

[Dan Zollman]

Are there really endangered lizards in the U.S.? I just think of lizards as things from a completely different part of the world, because I never see them here in PA...

anyway. Laws apply wherever and whenever they should (as defined by themselves and other laws). If there's some special case that warrants an exception, that will be determined by a judge--but you can still be arrested for jaywalking and you still probably won't win a lawsuit if you're hit by a car. The law isn't necessarily unconditionally correct, but it does unconditionally apply.

I admit that I'm the kind of person who would question and challenge rules or statements I'm given, but I recognize that even if a law is unreasonable it still has to be honored to "maintain order."

Back to the poll...I agree that I should never break a rule as a FIRSTer, as a member of my team, as a leader, and as a student. Breaking rules is wrong. Once in a while it happens anyway, and when I do break a rule, I usually willingly take the risk of suffering consequences. Nonetheless, it's never OK.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

I have to agree with both sides of this poll. I have broken small rules but I also think that breaking those rules is not right. Sometimes you can't help when you break the rules, it just has to be done. Are you going to be late to work? Will it help you to go 4 more miles over the speed limit to get there on time and save your job for another day? In that case, I would speed. I need the job, I don't want to get into trouble. 4 mph over the speed limit in IL is not warrant enough to give a speeding ticket. Now, bringing a pop into a convention (the reason this poll was made) is a little thing, too. It isn't like the company would be losing much money, if any at all. I wouldn't buy the drink there to begin with. So if I bring one in, there isn't much of a difference than me having my own and not buying theirs and me just not buying theirs. It's not illegal to do this. I can't get into any serious trouble and it doesn't hurt anyone. I do think, however, that if everyone does this it wouldn't be right. As I'm older and more responsible, I wouldn't do this. But it's absurd to charge an arm and a leg for a drink.

That's my reasoning. $0.02... whatever you want to call it. opinion.

[=Martin=Taylor=]

Rules are only silly records on paper...

Just because there is a "rule" saying that you must or mustn't do something does not justify doing it.

A good example is slavery. There was a time when slavery was legal. But was it moral? Just because it was legal didn't make it right.

I believe that everybody knows what is right and wrong, and that you should obey all rules that are "right" (or moral).

It was pretty clear that slavery was immoral, and as a result it was eventually abolished.

Luckily most of today's rules are moral. But you should still not blindly follow things just because somebody says they are "rules."

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII

Rules are only silly records on paper...

Just because there is a "rule" saying that you must or mustn't do something does not justify doing it.

A good example is slavery. There was a time when slavery was legal. But was it moral? Just because it was legal didn't make it right.

I believe that everybody knows what is right and wrong, and that you should obey all rules that are "right" (or moral).

It was pretty clear that slavery was immoral, and as a result it was eventually abolished.

Luckily most of today's rules are moral. But you should still not blindly follow things just because somebody says they are "rules."

You're not serious are you?
So let's say the ramming in the loading zone for the 2005 game Triple play does not have to be justified because it's just a written rule that can be arbitrarily followed by the participants at their own discretion if they deem it stupid or unfair? Never mind that it's truest intention was to make it safe for the human player to go out and load the robot without the risk of being injured by flying robot parts due to contact.
Rules are rules. You can debate them. You can apply to have them changed but you certainly should not just ignore them because you don't agree with them. That's just irresponsible and is totally against the principles of FIRST.