Rules Questions

[Eric W. Jones]

It says in the rules that,

<G21> SCORING for opponents - ROBOTS may not HANG a GAME PIECE of an opposing
ALLIANCE. If this rule is violated a 10-point penalty will be assessed per infraction.

Also,

<G15> Double RINGERS - a RINGER can not be placed on a SPIDER LEG on which a RINGER is
already HANGING. If a ROBOT HANGS a RINGER on a SPIDER LEG that already has a
HANGING RINGER from the opposing ALLIANCE, the second RINGER will be ignored
when calculating the match score. If a ROBOT HANGS a RINGER on a SPIDER LEG that
already has a HANGING RINGER from their own ALLIANCE (for example, to prevent a
SPOILER from being placed on the SPIDER LEG), the two RINGERS will cancel each other
and both will be ignored when determining if the SPIDER LEG is SCORED.

My question is, if you place an opponent's ringer over another one of their ringers, is the first still negated?

[A. Newlon]

The real question is, if the opponent has, let's say, eight in a row. Is it possible to take the ten penalty points to place their own ringer over another (negating both ringers) to lower their score?

[Steve S.]

Originally Posted by Eric W. Jones

My question is, if you place an opponent's ringer over another one of their ringers, is the first still negated?

Yours is negated....theirs still counts and you still get the penalty

my $.02 (hehe didnt see the post below when i edited)

[Jake177]

Only the ringer you put on is negated, as per the first part of the rule. If you put a ringer over one of your opponents ringers, regardless of its color, your ringer doesn't count, but your opponents rigner still counts.

[cbudrecki]

Originally Posted by Jake177

Only the ringer you put on is negated, as per the first part of the rule. If you put a ringer over one of your opponents ringers, regardless of its color, your ringer doesn't count, but your opponents rigner still counts.

After reading through G15 (posted in the first post of this thread), it seems to read assuming you are placing your own ringer. The possibility of hanging your opponents ringer isn't really addressed as far as cancelling that leg.

[Wbrown0389]

Does anyone know if it is possible to drop a "ramp" of some sorts in the Home Zone say during auto and complete the remainder of the match? There seems to be conflicting rules saying that we can deploy mechanisms inside the home zone but another rule states that leaving mechanisms behind is a penalty....

Is the FIRST Q&A up?

[cbudrecki]

Originally Posted by Wbrown0389

Does anyone know if it is possible to drop a "ramp" of some sorts in the Home Zone say during auto and complete the remainder of the match? There seems to be conflicting rules saying that we can deploy mechanisms inside the home zone but another rule states that leaving mechanisms behind is a penalty....

Originally Posted by 2007 FRC Manual, Sec. 7, Pg. 9

<G40> Detaching mechanisms - ROBOTS may not intentionally detach parts or leave multiple mechanisms on the field. Violations will result in a 10-point penalty per incident. If an intentionally detached component or mechanism significantly impedes access to the RACK or an ALLIANCE ROBOT during the END GAME, the offending ROBOT will be disqualified from the match.

What confuses me is the terms in bold above... First they say you may not leave multiple parts, and then they talk about penalties for single (an intentionally detached component or mechanism) parts...

Regardless, it seems as long as your component does not "impede access to the RACK or an ALLIANCE ROBOT," the 10-point penalty may be worth the risk. Then again, is it truly in the spirit of FIRST to intentionally earn a penalty to win the game

[Wbrown0389]

Originally Posted by tb222

What confuses me is the terms in bold above... First they say you may not leave multiple parts, and then they talk about penalties for single (an intentionally detached component or mechanism) parts...

Regardless, it seems as long as your component does not "impede access to the RACK or an ALLIANCE ROBOT," the 10-point penalty may be worth the risk. Then again, is it truly in the spirit of FIRST to intentionally earn a penalty to win the game

exactly what i was thinking. just not sure if we can deliberately leave something in the home zone, which would not impede movement of any other robots. there is a specific rule stating we cant do it on the field but no clarification in the zone. i think itll b well worth the risk.....who knows well see

[Steve Howland]

Question...

<G25> END GAME play – ROBOTS may not occupy the opponents HOME ZONE during the END GAME. Any ROBOT in an opponent’s HOME ZONE at the start of the END GAME will be assessed a 10-point penalty. A second 10-point penalty will be assessed if the ROBOT is still in the HOME ZONE 5 seconds after the start of the END GAME. Another 10-point penalty will be assessed if the ROBOT remains in the HOME ZONE 10 seconds after the start of the END GAME. However, a ROBOT that has been blocked or otherwise prevented from exiting the HOME ZONE (as described in Rule <G24>) will not be assessed any penalty.

If a robot becomes disabled while in the opponent's home zone and thus unable to leave during the End Game period, will there be a penalty assessed?

If the problem is electrical then I don't see why one should be, but what if you had a safety violation and the referees disabled you while there?

What if you purposely disable your robot with the E-stop while in the opponent's home zone as an attempt to interfere? (this would be against the spirit of FIRST, but I want it clarified so that it won't happen in a match)

[Aldgazar]

Does anyone know anything about the "STINGER" besides the fact that it's a small rubber tube attached to the back of a SPIDER FOOT.

There was something about it in the Kickoff demonstration. One of the RINGERS was stuck on a rubber tube and they said it wouldn't have counted until it was all the way on the SPIDER LEG. I don't remember if this is exactly what they said about it. The manual mentions the STINGER briefly at the end of 6.2.2 (The Arena, The Rack).

[DanDon]

Originally Posted by Aldgazar

Does anyone know anything about the "STINGER" besides the fact that it's a small rubber tube attached to the back of a SPIDER FOOT.

There was something about it in the Kickoff demonstration. One of the RINGERS was stuck on a rubber tube and they said it wouldn't have counted until it was all the way on the SPIDER LEG. I don't remember if this is exactly what they said about it. The manual mentions the STINGER briefly at the end of 6.2.2 (The Arena, The Rack).

The tube needs to be supported by the spider leg, and not the stinger. The stinger prevents tubes from being unintentionally descored.

[mstrjdilrd]

do u get points for rows if u have a two row on 7 and 8 and then on 1?

[Dan Kramer]

Originally Posted by dhoizner

The tube needs to be supported by the spider leg, and not the stinger. The stinger prevents tubes from being unintentionally descored.

at the sample competition field set-up today in Chicago kick-off event, the stinger was a short (approx. 3 inch), very flexible piece of rubber tubing. I don't see it being an obstacle, easy enough to 'push past.' I believe it is there to keep tubers from bouncy off once achieving scoring position

[insomniac6688]

Originally Posted by Aldgazar

Does anyone know anything about the "STINGER" besides the fact that it's a small rubber tube attached to the back of a SPIDER FOOT.

There was something about it in the Kickoff demonstration. One of the RINGERS was stuck on a rubber tube and they said it wouldn't have counted until it was all the way on the SPIDER LEG. I don't remember if this is exactly what they said about it. The manual mentions the STINGER briefly at the end of 6.2.2 (The Arena, The Rack).

From what my team and I can comprehend form the rulebook the stinger is used basically to keep the tubes from falling off. In the demonstration the robot had the tube caught on the stinger in front of the spider leg so it couldn't be scored until it was placed over the stinger.

[groves]

can yom move the center goal? rotate?