Ballast considered extra parts?

[Gabe]

I couldn't find any threads that provided answers, so...

Does removable ballast count toward the 25 pound weight limit on spare parts brought to competition?

If your robot turns out to have an unnacceptably high center of gravity with folded ramps, can you remove them and replace them with heavy weights that you brought with you to the competition.

So far, our robot is 40 pounds underweight and will most likely have ramps that fold up, raising the COG of the robot. Knowing this, can our team bring 40 pounds of steel weights to the regional to switch out if necessary, or are the weights considered spare parts and fall under the 25 pound limit?

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Gabe

I couldn't find any threads that provided answers, so...

Does removable ballast count toward the 25 pound weight limit on spare parts brought to competition?

If your robot turns out to have an unnacceptably high center of gravity with folded ramps, can you remove them and replace them with heavy weights that you brought with you to the competition.

So far, our robot is 40 pounds underweight and will most likely have ramps that fold up, raising the COG of the robot. Knowing this, can our team bring 40 pounds of steel weights to the regional to switch out if necessary, or are the weights considered spare parts and fall under the 25 pound limit?

If the COMPONENTS that make up the ballast are COTS, then they don't count against your 25 pounds. Also, this assumes you're not switching back and forth between ballast and ramps (if it were, you'd have to be on the scale with both ramps AND ballast, which would probably put you overweight).

[Doug G]

This reminds me of our scenario. We are prepared to remove our ramps if we feel someone else in our alliance has a better ramp system. By removing our ramps we drop 20 lbs.

But if we then add a 20 lb ballast, I think it would be breaking the rules. Your robot with ALL configurations cannot weigh more than 120 (4 ft). Otherwise teams would have multiple drive systems, manipulators, etc... which would hardly be fair (fun though..).

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Doug G

This reminds me of our scenario. We are prepared to remove our ramps if we feel someone else in our alliance has a better ramp system. By removing our ramps we drop 20 lbs.

But if we then add a 20 lb ballast, I think it would be breaking the rules. Your robot with ALL configurations cannot weigh more than 120 (4 ft). Otherwise teams would have multiple drive systems, manipulators, etc... which would hardly be fair (fun though..).

So, is ballast a mechanism? Here is the pertinent rule:

Originally Posted by 2007 FRC Manual

<R10> At weigh-in, the basic ROBOT structure and all elements of all additional mechanisms that might be used in different configurations of the ROBOT must be weighed together. Included in the weight limit are the robot control system, back-up 7.2V battery, decorations, and all other attached parts.
o Example: A team has decided to design their “Class 1” ROBOT such that, before any given match, they may change the configuration of the ROBOT based on perceived strengths or weaknesses of an opposing ROBOT. The team accomplished this by constructing its ROBOT as a basic drive train platform plus two versions of a GAME PIECE manipulator, each manipulator being a quick attach / detach device such that either one or the other (but not both) may be part of the ROBOT at the beginning of a match. Their ROBOT platform weighs 107 lb, version A of the manipulator weighs 6 lb, and version B weighs 8 lb. Although only one version will be on the ROBOT during a match, both manipulators (and all components of the manipulators that would be used during the match) must be on the scale along with the ROBOT platform during weigh in. This would result in a rejection of the ROBOT because its total weight comes to 121 lb.

I know of one team in 2006 that was permitted to replace their shooter with a gym weight of about the same mass, so they could play defense with maximum effect during the eliminations. I recall the explanation given then was "weight is not a mechanism".

But that was then and this is now. If you have any doubt, please ask the question using the official Q&A system.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Last year, a team decided mid event to change the design of the robot. They removed a shooter to become a defensive robot. In this case the change was a permanent redesign and not an attachment. As such the robot was required to be reweighed and inspected. The team went through all the steps including the input of the Head Ref, FTA and Inspector. Of most concern is that the "ballast" was secured within the robot. Of interest this year is the weight class ruling. You will state at the beginning of the event the weight class in which you will be competing. Once stated, that is the class you will use for the remainder of the event.

[Brandon Holley]

I would say as long as u reweigh it, and resize it, and dont use whatever ramp/tube/fillintheblank mechanism you have, it would be ok. However, there is no obvious rule to answer this question.

[MrForbes]

Interesting.....so the robot design could include a place to put some 1' x 2' sheets of metal on the very bottom, one could order some pieces of 1' x 2' metal sheets of various materials or thicknesses, and then be able to replace the ramp assembly (or arm assembly) with them as long as the robot is reweighed and reinspected. The ballast itself would be COTS, even though it would look like it was made to fit the robot.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Last year, a team decided mid event to change the design of the robot. They removed a shooter to become a defensive robot. In this case the change was a permanent redesign and not an attachment. As such the robot was required to be reweighed and inspected. The team went through all the steps including the input of the Head Ref, FTA and Inspector. Of most concern is that the "ballast" was secured within the robot. ...

The situation I recalled (above) was very similar, Al. The change was considered "permanent" because the team had no intention nor opportunity to change back to the original configuration after installing the ballast. At least not at that event. And the team's goal was not to gain a strategic advantage using multiple configuration options. They were trying to be as competitive as possible under the circumstances, and their shooter could not be repaired in the time available. I think official's call was correct then.

The question now is whether a team should be allowed to plan on multiple configurations, mechanism or ballast, to gain a strategic advantage in 2007. And the official Q&A system is the only place to look for an answer.

[JohnBoucher]

Can you not ship the ballast with the robot?

<R31> Teams may bring a maximum of 25 pounds of custom FABRICATED ITEMS (SPARE
PARTS, REPLACEMENT PARTS, and/or UPGRADE PARTS) to each competition event to
be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT at the competition site. All other
FABRICATED ITEMS to be used on the ROBOT during the competition must arrive at the
competition venue packed in the shipping crate with the ROBOT.

[Wetzel]

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

Can you not ship the ballast with the robot?

Shipping with the robot seems like the best way to go, but 40 lbs of ballast also goes a long way to putting your crate over 400lbs.

Wetzel