Just wondering...

[Mike S.]

This is more for the people that want 1 unlimited national, Why would you want this gigantic competition, if you don't even get to compete against all the teams?

I personally would have liked to compete with, 190-125-157-47, and there is more, but that’s not possible because the nationals were huge and setup in divisions that segregates teams.

I think if nationals were brought back to the size of a regional it would be much more fun because you get to compete against all the teams and have a chance of meeting the people who attend.



Mike

[Sean_330]

I think a small national would make it a lot more fun. My first year in FIRST was 1998, and i thought that the national in that year was the most fun because it was a lot larger than a regional, yet still had that feeling of closeness. At the 2001 national, i thought that it felt like 4 unrelated regionals going on at once that besides the location, had no relationship to each other. However, in some ways i hate the idea of not letting many teams go to the nationals. I agree with mike that it would be great getting to compete with the teams that you want. What if the first, second, third, and fourth seed in all the regionals, rookie all stars, as well as the chairman's award winners were invited to attend the national that would be held several months down the road from the regionals. Anyway, that is jusy my thought of how to have a smaller national without having a criteria that some teams could meet and some could not.

Sean
Who wishes that FIRST could grow forever without these problems.

[Kyle Fenton]

What if the first, second, third, and fourth seed in all the regionals, rookie all stars, as well as the chairman's award winners were invited to attend the national

I tottally disagree with this statement. Were letting the teams that already won just to win again. What kind of competition is that? The reason for nationals is to give a second chance for most teams to win big. Plus they also announce the animation awards and Chairmans Awards, so it is anyones game there.

Plus Nationals have to be planned months in advanced, if you see that you do not qualify than its a waste of money.

Florida is a special treat. My phiolsphy is anybody that can afford Nationals can go to it. I assure you, Disney always pushes their immgination in there theme parks. I think that they can push up the 360 team limit.

[Leon Machado IV]

I think Disney can do it if they wanted too. I agree that the nationals should be huge. It's the biggest thing we do. Everyone all over the country hears about the nationals. It's one of the biggest selling points, I think. I understand where people believe that the nationals is getting too large and I too remember back in '98 when it was smaller. But I still believe that the nationals should be kept big. We keep on breaking records and in recent years, the size capacity at Disney has been the easiest to break. It gives us one of our major names.

[Mike Soukup]

Originally posted by Kyle Fenton

I tottally disagree with this statement. Were letting the teams that already won just to win again. What kind of competition is that? The reason for nationals is to give a second chance for most teams to win big.

What kind of competition is it? It's a competition of the best robots. That idea is not foreign at all. Teams in the playoffs of all sports are the teams that won the most games during the season (ie the best from the division). Most, if not all, countries send athletes and teams that win qualifying competitions to the Olympics (ie the best in the country). Even in FIRST we send the teams that score the most points in qualifying to the eliminations (ie the best teams). I see nothing wrong with making nationals the playoffs of the FIRST season; a place where the best robots battle each other for the championship. It would increase the excitement and quality of play, which are both good for the much talked about TV coverage.

I don't understand where you got the statement that the reason for nationals is to give teams a second chance to win. Who from FIRST said this?

Mike

[Joe Johnson]

I believe (and have long shared this belief) that it is in the long-term best interest of FIRST to limit the size of the Nationals.

I know that it is a big draw for many kids to go to the Nationals, but I think in the long run, it will be more inspirational if the number of teams that make it are limited.

I know that we don't quite fit the sports model, but we are close in many ways. Limiting the teams that make it to a competition has always made those sports grow. From the World Series to the World Cup to the NCAA basketball tourney to the Bowl game in college football, all these sports have benefited from having the group that makes it limited by some criteria.

(to be continued... )

[Joe Johnson]

(continued from above)

I think that FIRST has come up with a solomon like proposal. They have split the baby 3 ways:

Solomon Split #1:
Good teams from past years get about 1/2 (good meaning not just good robots but good teams meaning winners of Chairman's Awards, Animation competitions, judges awards and also teams with good robots).

Solomon Split #2:
About 1/2 of the slots given to some sort of random or nearly random picking process (say even/odd team numbers).

Solomon Split #3:
They would also leave enough slots open for teams that win a regional but were not otherwise already invited. If you are good enough or lucky enough to win a regional, you get a ticket to the dance. It may mean last minute airfares and other expensive stuff, but hey, this is the Big Show! If it is prestigous enough to get to go, I think most teams will be able to find enough friends to support the team in their finest hour -- heck, it may even get a bit of local TV coverage that we have had such a hard time getting on any consistant basis.

I know this is a tough pill for a lot of folks to take, but I think it is medicine that will make us stronger in the end.

Joe J.

[Kyle Fenton]

I am sorry. I think all of your reasoning is flawed about limiting the size of nationals. Are goal is not to limit the size of nationals, but find new creative ways to expand them. I think the nationals is for everyone that can afford it.

It may mean last minute airfares and other expensive stuff, but hey, this is the Big Show!

Please remember some teams don't have the money for that convenient.

Teams in the playoffs of all sports are the teams that won the most games during the season (ex. the best from the division). Most, if not all, countries send athletes and teams that win qualifying competitions to the Olympics (ex. the best in the country).

You are demoting FIRST to the level of these sports. Remember Dean's effort is to trying to find something better than sports with Gracias Professionalism.

This is my proposal. Disney knows it has to host more than 360 teams or they are going to lose FIRST. AND THEY KNOW FIRST brings them tremendous income for a pretty dull weak during the year. I have heard this before but spilt the teams among the theme parks of the whole Disney. Magic, MGM, that Animal theme park, and that water one. And Epcot would be the main park, with the Einstein field.
It is almost like the divisions we had this year.

Division Epcot would use Einstein
Division Magic would use Curie
Division MGM would use Watt
and so on

and at each division would be a basic sheltered pit area with the main competition field on one side and a cruddy practice field on the other side. These divisions would have a lot more area for pits and maybe a lock box (not AL Gore's lock box) to store valuable items and students stuff for the day. During the practice and the qualifiers matches would
1. be more on time
2. would have more room for cameras and won't be as congested as the nationals have been
3. would truly look at the robots in your divisions and won't be distracted by other in other divisions

Also
in this plan
1. people will have more space
2. the finals will be hosted on Einstein and will hear the roaring crowds of 500+ teams
3. team boxes can be left at the station for more storage
4. more room would would increase safety like when cutting or welding
5. Help rookie teams merge into FIRST


And at the end people can meet everybody from every team in Epcot.

This is a no compromise deal. It is the best of all worlds. The only thing holding back is if Disney going to say NO to expanding to other parks. But if this work out, it would be a more pleasurable expience for all the people.

When you try to say "no, you can't go" you are just going to produce a negative appearance to FIRST. It would discourage Rookie teams, and teams who can just afford the nationals and cannot afford regionals. Plus you would just produce negative press, which FIRST does not defiantly need.

Everybody when they see this program they see an incentive to go into Disney, now when you steal that opportunity because you couldn't cut it in Regionals, it just breaks their heart. Makes them rethink and maybe quit FIRST. Which completely obscures the purpose of this organization, which is trying to get teenagers involved with technology.

So be careful what you wish for. I hope one day, somebody can invent a cheap way to fly or something to get 100% participation in Nationals. Because us Veteran teams think of Nationals for everybody, not the selected few.