ZOOM OUT!

[sanddrag]

I'm not too familiar with the inner workings of the camera crews and system, but I noticed many times they tend to zoom in on stuff that no one really cares to see. This was particularly evident on the screens inside the pit area at the championship. Due to the separation between pits and field, often times, these screens are the only matches students will get to see other than their own (or even of their own). Additionally, many students hope to do scouting from these screens. I recall one particular instance that triggered me to produce this thread: I was watching one of the Newton matches, and a robot fell on its back, and then BAM, I was looking at the wheel of a dead robot nearly 7 feet tall on this screen, for over 10 seconds while intense scoring was happening all over the rack. It was zoomed in so far I could have seen a grain of sand on the wheel. In this match, one robot I was trying to watch was shown only once, for a period of less than 5 seconds. I think the choice of where the camera is pointed and how far it is zoomed in needs to be reevaluated. Personally, I'd enjoy seeing a stationary view of the whole field. I have no need to see the stiches in a bumper, or the chain that fell off. Anyone agree?

[Steve Kaneb]

Well, from looking at the wide views, I don't think there's any way to really see anything intricate about the robots, which is what I'm usually looking for. I agree that there are too many shots that are too close to see action. I think the part that makes the videos the hardest to watch is that they switch cameras far too often for the big screen. I see a robot moving 5 feet, then they switch to the other side of the field. It makes the field seem disjointed, and I don't know of anybody who looks at the field with such rapid changes in focus. Because the screen switches too often, I'm often more confused when watching webcasts than when I'm on the ground level or in the stands. Even after several rewatchings of a match, it's very hard to tell what any particular robot is doing.

[BornaE]

Exactly, FRC is not like Soccer that there is only one ball which is important. there are 6 active robots during the whole match.
I can't see anything from the matches.
on soap archives compare arizona regional videos with other regionals. The az archives are filmed by one of the team member, it looks way better than the rest

[fimmel]

would having a smaller picture in the top corner of the screen with the whole field showing be good? maybe 20% of the total screen?
/forest

[AV_guy007]

The reason there are a lot of close up shots in the pit feed and webcast is because they are just taking the feed from the big screen People field side don't need to see a wide angle of the playing field because they already can see it right in front of them. It may be possible to have a wide angle with close ups in the corner for the webcast and pit monitors but that requires a separate camera video feed and video mixer. hiring an extra video mixer per division will add up, believe me they get paid well.

[Jaime65]

would it help to have the big screen stationary and never change it just view the entire field and have each of the 4 corners a separate camera with close ups and zooming in and out?

[Tom Line]

I think this is a critical message that First needs to understand.

These videos are not just for people in the stands. They are webcast, broadcast, recorded to DVD's, teams use them for scouting...

Please tell the camera crews to stop flipping their camera on its side, or rolling it over and over for 5 or 10 seconds at a time. These matches are only 2 minutes long, and missing 15 seconds of it is analogous to missing 8 minutes of a hockey game. Can you imagine the reaction of the fans if the NFL decided to spin their cameras in circles instead of showing the game?

You don't have to have the whole field in view the whole time, but I've seen constant complaints regarding the amount of zooming in on robots, and I have to agree wholeheartedly. I know that my team, watching the webcast and trying to see what's actually happening, gets very irritated when the camera folks start trying to make it "more interesting".

On showing the DVD to several other folks to promote first, they've also commented on the fact that from the camera shots it's very, very difficult to tell what's going on because their view is so limited.

[Tytus Gerrish]

you're right. if this were the NFL like first is supposed to be modeled after there would be companies competing to film and broadcast the matches with the highest clairty and best abilty to comprend the game. FootBall fans would be incredibly angry and would recive better. the Dolphins game does not do closeups of individual players durring play because the audiance is intrested in the ball.

[Don Wright]

I can't express enough how right you guys are. The video footage is horrible.

The camera guys should back up, get more than one part of one robot in view, and stop switching the camera views so much.

The game is exciting. Don't try to make it even more with the camera.

And don't even get me started on the trend to spin the camera upside down... OMG... I actually scream "STOP IT" at my computer screen when it happens. It drives me crazy...

[/rant]

[Bongle]

In order to satisfy both the field viewers and the webcast viewers, FIRST would probably have to double its investment in video hardware. They'd need the whole pipeline of camera->mixer->webcaster for both the wide-field camera destined for the webcast and the close-in/interesting stuff destined for the back of the field.

You guys have to remember though: at a regional, there are probably going to be 40 teams, and at least 10 people from each team sitting at the field, watching. How many webcast viewers are there (I don't know, but I imagine it is less than 400)? How many people stand in front of the screens in front of the pit trying to see the match? Probably less than 10, continuously.

I think the best thing to do would be for one team to record the full field of each match with a high definition camcorder and distribute the videos afterwards via bittorrent. There are camcorders available within a team's budget, like this Sony 1080p model that records to a hard drive for $1800CDN. For a less crazy price, here is another one that does 1440x1080 (not real 1080p, but still very good) for $1200. My boss has the $1800 one and says he loves it, perhaps I can borrow it for the waterloo regional next year.

[Faith]

We could always invest in 7 screens/cameras, one for each robot and one for the whole field . Then scouting from matches becomes easier, if you are watching a specific team it is easy, and you can still see everything!

[vhcook]

I think you're underestimating the number of people who watch the webcasts, particularly on Saturdays. I watched at least half of one regional per weekend when I wasn't competing. If there's only one person per team who does the same, you're looking at a couple thousand viewers, distributed across the one or two regionals that get webcast in a typical weekend. And that's not counting the parents and team members who couldn't make it to their regional, scouts, and people who teams have convinced to watch while trying to grow the community.

[Dave Flowerday]

Originally Posted by vhcook

I think you're underestimating the number of people who watch the webcasts, particularly on Saturdays.

He's not underestimating. I've done the webcasting for about a dozen events now and the largest audience we've had was this year's Midwest regional which topped out at about 200 viewers.

[Greg Marra]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

He's not underestimating. I've done the webcasting for about a dozen events now and the largest audience we've had was this year's Midwest regional which topped out at about 200 viewers.

I have heard slightly higher numbers from other regionals, but I agree that the number watching live probably isn't in the thousands.

However, the statistics exist:

• SOAP pushed out over a terabyte of data last month.
• The Blue Alliance has had almost 3500 unique visitors this month who have requested a total of over 35,000 matches.
• The Blue Alliance's Championship Division Breakdown was viewed over 6,000 times.

Video in FIRST is a major force.

[Tom Line]

I wonder.... it just occurred to me that perhaps the cameraman didn't have the scoring screen plastered across their camera so they saw twice as much as what we saw. That thing took up close to 25% of the screen....

Perhaps we could move to Just The Team (Blue / Red) and the scores on the screen, so that we can see more of the match?