Can a Robot Start on Top of Another ...

[armoredvehicle]

Hi my team and I just finished discussing design ideas for the robot, but we had a quick question. In a match can another be placed on top of another one before the match has even started? Or can a robot, in the teleoperated period, climb on top of another robot, and "hitch a ride"?

The reason I am asking this, is because what if a fast robot could carry another robot with it, then it technically could receive twice the number of points when crossing its finish line.

My team has tried to find a rule about this, but was unable to find anything. So can't wait to see your responses.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by armoredvehicle

Hi my team and I just finished discussing design ideas for the robot, but we had a quick question. In a match can another be placed on top of another one before the match has even started? Or can a robot, in the teleoperated period, climb on top of another robot, and "hitch a ride"?

The reason I am asking this, is because what if a fast robot could carry another robot with it, then it technically could receive twice the number of points when crossing its finish line.

My team has tried to find a rule about this, but was unable to find anything. So can't wait to see your responses.

I'll start at the beginning, in starting conditions, in Section 7. Robots cannot touch each other in the starting configuration. If you're on top of another robot, you are by definition touching them.

In teleop, it is considered as pinning/attempting to disable. Penalty, disable, and DQ may all result.

[armoredvehicle]

Maybe my second question wasn't very clear. Could your OWN alliance teammate "hitch a ride" with you?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by armoredvehicle

Maybe my second question wasn't very clear. Could your OWN alliance teammate "hitch a ride" with you?

Well, if I was a ref, I might to call you on <S01> due to lack of stability. There are no rules to explicitly disallow this, but it should be pretty much impossible. (No "wedge" robots and the bumper rule come to mind to make it impossible.)

[Otaku]

Pneumatic lifts that fold out come to mind... casters on the bottom and there you go. ;p

But in all honesty, doesn't seem like a properly viable strategy. Sure, you could probably circumvent the rules somehow, but I'd save myself the headache.

[Woody1458]

plus just because you can doesn't mean they will. What team would wat to spend one of their games playing piggy back? especially getting into finals, where all he robots are good.

[Jon Stratis]

I agree that not many teams would want to "hitch a ride" for the entire match... but i could see it being a viable strategy if both robots were designed together with the idea of working together (clearly, not really possible with FIRST as alliances are randomized, etc).

From a purely hypothetical point of view, having one team that focuses all their effort on an amazing drive train that can get them around the track 20 times per match, and another that can attach to them and hurdle amazingly quickly (with no drive train to speak of), then such a combination of specialized bots could be a good thing.

Of course, you don't really have the ability to plan out weeks ahead of time with other teams, and even if you could, you would be reliant on one team making it to the top 8 in the regionals to pick the other, which probably wouldn't happen if the bots were designed to work together so well.

Still, it's an interesting idea.

[ALIBI]

OK, you can not stack prior to the start. If for some reason you did want to stack, what would you do about that little thingy called a FLAG HOLDER that must be at 51" in the Playing Configuration?

This thread does make me thing of something else though, how fast and stable would say a three robot train be (think nascar), front to rear or side to side? It would be interesting to see if nothing else.

[acetech-st]

Been there, done that. : )

I was told they changed the rules for the finals last year (2006) to disallow this, but we won this match last year without 2 blue alliance robots leaving "home"

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/27756

[EricH]

Originally Posted by acetech-st

Been there, done that. : )

I was told they changed the rules for the finals last year (2006) to disallow this, but we won this match last year without 2 blue alliance robots leaving "home"

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/27756

I remember this coming up, and I too remember it being immediately disallowed. (Actually, after looking at the referenced thread, Q&A had allowed it previously.)

[ALIBI]

Don't forget about your standard bumpers.

"STANDARD BUMPERS must remain within the BUMPER ZONE when the ROBOT is resting on the floor in PLAYING CONFIGURATION. They must not be articulated or moved outside of the BUMPER ZONE.

I suppose you could argue that the robot is no longer on the floor so the bumpers could be moved outside the bumper zone. However, for the reasons previously discussed and that I believe the intent of bumpers this year is to have them in the bumper zone at all times, a Q and A would probably tell you that you can not start on top of another robot.

[IbleedPink233]

My team has always joked around about a Megazord bot (like in Power Rangers) that would combine to make an ultimate FRC Bot, but I never thought someone else would. . .
The biggest problem is that both of the bots would have to be designed to fit together and it would be way easier for two teams to make 2 Kit Bots that could drive separately than to make a complex pneumatic lift and a Drive Train to drive double the weight. It doesn't matter how fast the lower robot is - if has twice the weight, then it will probably be too slow to compete, anyway.
So you would have to answer the big question: why?