Big Thanks to Everyone!

[Setsanto]

Hey,
Over the past few weeks, I think my team has used this forum more than anyone else. As a result, we now have an animation done in our first year! This could not have been done without the help of many of you, in particular BuddyB309, who provided valuable help to us throughout the season. THanks a lot everyone!

~Setsanto

P.S. Our screenshot:

[BuddyB309]

Thanks, I always love teaching people who have the willingness to learn. Promise me you will work with the software over the summer. Then you can come back next year and sweep the contest.

[Setsanto]

I'm doubting the whole sweeping the contest thing! Also, a more serious point, our school has decided that the licenses of 3ds Max that Autodesk gave us should be used at computers at school for a Media Arts course, and the rest of our animation team and myself shouldn't have them at home. Is this common?

~Setsanto

[adamrw91]

well they really cant do that because the liscences for the 3ds max are for use on the first competition only. you can read up on it at firstbase

[Setsanto]

But does that also then not mean we cant use them at home?

[BuddyB309]

Originally Posted by Setsanto

But does that also then not mean we cant use them at home?

Sure you can, as long as your intent is FIRST. If you are using it to design lesson plans for the animation team or to help your animation team design a project for practice you can use it. Autodesk gives you a year license for a reason, if they only wanted us to use it for the season, they would have a 3 month license. You cant use it for commercial work, only for FIRST.

It's not uncommon for mechanical teams to have workshops over the summer to help everyone learn, why cant the animation team have that opportunity. If your pursuit is education, let nothing stand in your way.

[Pavan Dave]

Originally Posted by BuddyB309

Sure you can, as long as your intent is FIRST. If you are using it to design lesson plans for the animation team or to help your animation team design a project for practice you can use it. Autodesk gives you a year license for a reason, if they only wanted us to use it for the season, they would have a 3 month license. You cant use it for commercial work, only for FIRST.

It's not uncommon for mechanical teams to have workshops over the summer to help everyone learn, why cant the animation team have that opportunity. If your pursuit is education, let nothing stand in your way.

But there is a big difference in using the licenses to start a course at a school and using the licenses to teach a few kids that are on the robotics team with the computers coincidentally being at the school. The first one is against the Autodesk terms.

On the FAQ of FIRSTbase the following written:

Can I use this software for my school classroom or for another use besides FIRST?
The granted software is intended for support of FRC team efforts only is not licensed for schools to use in classrooms or labs. If the Autodesk software is used in a manner in which it was not intended, the user’s license may be de-activated and further actions may be taken.

Rules are there for a reason. And although we may not agree on all of them all of the time, we still have to follow them.





.

[Setsanto]

Ok, thanks alot everyone

~Setsanto

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by Setsanto

I'm doubting the whole sweeping the contest thing! Also, a more serious point, our school has decided that the licenses of 3ds Max that Autodesk gave us should be used at computers at school for a Media Arts course, and the rest of our animation team and myself shouldn't have them at home. Is this common?

~Setsanto

You need to have a talk with your school administration. If in fact this is what the school decided it is nothing less than theft, pure and simple.

The license agreement is for the team and team members to use to develop animations for uses related to the team, on any computer available to them, including home computers.

The license agreement specifically prohibits installing the software for school instructional use. In order for the school to use Autodesk products they will have to execute a purchase agreement with Autodesk for any and all licenses they install, apart from any licenses that is used in robotics.

The administrations actions are potentially a serious breach of trust as it regards Autodesk and the FIRST community.

Please do what you can to correct this, or Autodesk will likely correct it for them.

[Kevin Thorp]

Originally Posted by ebarker

You need to have a talk with your school administration. If in fact this is what the school decided it is nothing less than theft, pure and simple.

When you talk to the school administrators I recommend being very diplomatic. I'm sure it's not their intent to "steal" the software or break Autodesk's terms of use contract. They probably think the Max licenses are standard educational-use.

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by Kevin342

When you talk to the school administrators I recommend being very diplomatic. I'm sure it's not their intent to "steal" the software or break Autodesk's terms of use contract. They probably think the Max licenses are standard educational-use.

Agreed !!
If the school paid the FIRST registration fees they may think they have a license to use so it will be necessary to explain how all that works.

[Kevin Thorp]

Maybe a compromise could be worked out that would stay within the license agreement?

Perhaps the school could sponsor a FIRST Robotics animation club in the afternoon and/or during the summer vacation. The main goal would be to learn 3ds Max skills in preparation for the 2008-2009 season.

[Mazin]

pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate pirate, and when you're done doing that, pirate some more.


No, seriously, I am not happy with Autodesk's 3ds max, and what I perceive to be an overpriced, bloated piece of software that is very buggy and suffers from a lot of legacy cruft. Every year they release a new version of the software with broken file-format compatibility, and basically force feed it onto everybody using an older version.
They're starting to act like Microsoft. No. They've been acting like Microsoft. They give you the first hit free. Then, when you become dependent, they make you pay.

If you want to learn something, might as well learn Blender while you're at it. People whine and moan about the interface, but it's actually usable when you take the time to learn. Nobody learned Max in a day.

And Blender is free, as in freedom. You can install it on as many computers as you like. Files are forwards and backwards compatible, unlike Max's closed binary format. You don't have to worry about how many licenses you currently have. You don't have to worry about whether installing it on your home computer will use up the X number of licenses you have. You don't have to worry about being dependent on Max like an addict is on crack, and being forced to shell out money. There are no rules to follow on how you can and cannot use the software (besides the GPL, that is).

If you don't agree with my first paragraph, then consider switching. If you don't want to switch, keep pirating.

(Sorry for derailing the thread too far. I agree that Pete is a great help to everybody on the forums, and has continually blessed us with his expert advice. in b4 negs)

[Kevin Thorp]

Originally Posted by Mazin

If you don't want to switch, keep pirating.

Wow - that's the first time I've read a posting on Chief Delphi that encourages students to commit a crime (stealing software). Not exactly the "Gracious Professionalism" FIRST tries to promote.

Autodesk donates 5 one-year licenses of 3ds Max and 10 licenses of Inventor to over 1500 teams nationwide (now worldwide) and they sponsor these two exciting competitions. So they are evil because their software is bloated and their prices are too high?

Yes, the full commercial license of 3ds Max is pricey ($3500) but thousands of professional animators think it's worth the money. If you're a student you can buy it for less than $400 online at places like Studica. They even have a 14-month license for only $195.

Or there are plenty of other, less expensive alternatives - Blender, Gmax, Sketchup (all free), Truespace, Hash AnimationMaster, Poser, Carrara, Rhino, etc. Here's a pretty complete list: Link

If you don't like a company's product or price you can shop elsewhere. It's called the free market.

If you pirate software it's called a felony.

[Mazin]

Originally Posted by Kevin342

Wow - that's the first time I've read a posting on Chief Delphi that encourages students to commit a crime (stealing software). Not exactly the "Gracious Professionalism" FIRST tries to promote.
[...]
If you pirate software it's called a felony.

somebody bit. ok.

That's right. Pirating software is a felony. As a fine, upstanding community, we shouldn't be pirating software. However, there ends up being about three options for software like Max when you leave your comfortable world of educational licenses.

1. Pay for it. Max is about $3500 last I checked, with the (optional) annual subscription program an additional $500-600 (maybe? I don't remember what mine was...) a year. It can be a reasonable expenditure, depending on the business you do.
2. Violate the end-user license (some people like to refer to this as "pirating," "theft," "stealing," or any number of other amusing phrases).
3. Find an alternative.

Guess what is the most common approach? I'll give you hint (par. 1 of my previous post.)

Guess what I'd rather have you guys do? (it's not a hard guess to make.)

Meanwhile, here's sum delicious copypasta:
http://www.turbosquid.com/Forum/Inde...ThreadID/30224
(Andy Rak is a very respected senior member of TurboSquid.)
http://www.coniserver.net/ubbthreads...e/0#Post469119
(Worth bookmarking.)