NJ Regional: IR Legality

[LH Machinist]

At the NJ Regional today there were many good robots, however I did take notice to a team that seemed to drive their Robot using a custom made IR transmitter. I understand that this game was desgined for a ROBO Coach to make decisions for the robot based on ball position, position on the field, etc. But is a robot allowed to be entirely controlled by the Robo Coach during autnomous? It seems that this team stretched the rules to accomodate themselves and give them 15 extra seconds behind the controls of the robot. Any other thoughts on this?

[jgannon]

The rules covering Robocoach interactions are covered under <R65>. Please read it carefully, and then post again if you still have questions.

[gurellia53]

I believe that its legal to make your own IR transmitter. If the distinct functions are left, right, faster, and slower, it would be possible to drive your robot.

[DarkFlame145]

Yeah you can mod your IR receiver. We juggled around the idea of adding 2 more IR eyes or taking off the eye and connecting it and the bored to a cable so we can get it up higher w/o putting the bored at risk of getting hit.

[Jetweb]

Thats our backup mode... as far as we could understand it is a legal operation as long as they are not holding down any buttons for sustained periods of time.

[LH Machinist]

Originally Posted by jgannon

The rules covering Robocoach interactions are covered under <R65>. Please read it carefully, and then post again if you still have questions.

Upon further review, it still do feel they are in violation of rule 65.

Bullet #8: "use a maximum of four different inputs from the ROBOCOACH (e.g. use four differentbuttons) during any single MATCH"

Bullet #9: communicate no more than four messages, states or conditions to the ROBOT (please refer to Rule <R69> and Rule <G01> for additional information) during any single MATCH.


My interpretation of this rule is that you may push any combination of buttons a maximum of 4 times total. Thus meaning you may push one button four times, four buttons one time each, or any combination thereof but not to exceed a total of four button pushes.

With the aforementioned constraints, I feel it is impossible for a team to do what they did legally...score 28 points

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by LH Machinist

My interpretation of this rule is that you may push any combination of buttons a maximum of 4 times total. Thus meaning you may push one button four times, four buttons one time each, or any combination thereof but not to exceed a total of four button pushes.

I think you have a different interpretation of the rules than the rest of us do....the rule does say you can only use 4 different commands, but it says nothing about not being able to repeat a command.

[LH Machinist]

Originally Posted by squirrel

I think you have a different interpretation of the rules than the rest of us do....the rule does say you can only use 4 different commands, but it says nothing about not being able to repeat a command.

If that was the case, why would it be posted in the rules in two bullets in a row, bullets 8 and 9. Please refer to my earlier post for more information regarding this matter.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by LH Machinist

If that was the case, why would it be posted in the rules in two bullets in a row, bullets 8 and 9. Please refer to my earlier post for more information regarding this matter.

The rule limits how many different commands you can use, not how many times you can use each command. I think this is what you are confused about.

Although I can understand why you interpret it the way you do...it does make sense. Still, it seems to me that there would be a very specific prohibition of repeating any command if your interpretation were actually what the GDC had in mind.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by LH Machinist

Upon further review, it still do feel they are in violation of rule 65.

Bullet #8: "use a maximum of four different inputs from the ROBOCOACH (e.g. use four differentbuttons) during any single MATCH"

Bullet #9: communicate no more than four messages, states or conditions to the ROBOT (please refer to Rule <R69> and Rule <G01> for additional information) during any single MATCH.


My interpretation of this rule is that you may push any combination of buttons a maximum of 4 times total. Thus meaning you may push one button four times, four buttons one time each, or any combination thereof but not to exceed a total of four button pushes.

With the aforementioned constraints, I feel it is impossible for a team to do what they did legally...score 28 points

This is contrary to most answers by the GDC in the Q&A as well as what I have seen as the reading of the majority of CD users.

You may have 4 buttons that perform the same action each time they are pressed. You may press them any number of times at any point during the full 2:15 of the match. You may not hold them down in order to send multiple signals or obtain a different functionality.

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by LH Machinist

With the aforementioned constraints, I feel it is impossible for a team to do what they did legally...score 28 points

I came up with a way to get both balls of, with only pressing 2 buttons. Unfortunatly I didnt have time to work on it though. Hopefully I get some time Thursday at Wisconsin.
Joey

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by LH Machinist

My interpretation of this rule is that you may push any combination of buttons a maximum of 4 times total. Thus meaning you may push one button four times, four buttons one time each, or any combination thereof but not to exceed a total of four button pushes.

This is an incorrect interpretation.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=8535

[LH Machinist]

Originally Posted by jgannon

This is an incorrect interpretation.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=8535

Thanks

[ALIBI]

Would commands like this be legal?

A: Turn Left
B: Go Straight and increase speed 5%
C: Turn Right
D: Go Straight and decrease speed 5%

Note: The straight command would be from 0-250 with 125 being in the middle of reverse and forward so that if you decreased speed enough, you would end up going in reverse. You really end up with four commands, forward, reverse, left or right. I am just not sure about the legality of the incremental increases/decreases in speed. On the other hand, increasing straight speed by +5% is a single command and decreasing straight speed by -5% is also a single command. Each time you push the "B" button speed increases by 5% and each time you push the "D" button speed decreases by 5%.

If this is not legal, would having:

B: Go straight at x% speed forward
D: Go straight at x% speed reverse

A and C would be in the direction and speed previously set by B or D

From what I saw in Hybrid today, it appears that some teams are using this type of setup.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by ALIBI

Would commands like this be legal?

A: Turn Left
B: Go Straight and increase speed 5%
C: Turn Right
D: Go Straight and decrease speed 5%

Note: The straight command would be from 0-250 with 125 being in the middle of reverse and forward so that if you decreased speed enough, you would end up going in reverse. You really end up with four commands, forward, reverse, left or right. I am just not sure about the legality of the incremental increases/decreases in speed. On the other hand, increasing straight speed by +5% is a single command and decreasing straight speed by -5% is also a single command. Each time you push the "B" button speed increases by 5% and each time you push the "D" button speed decreases by 5%.

If this is not legal, would having:

B: Go straight at x% speed forward
D: Go straight at x% speed reverse

A and C would be in the direction and speed previously set by B or D

From what I saw in Hybrid today, it appears that some teams are using this type of setup.

A and C are definitely legal, provided that they are not dependent on time of button press.

B and D are a little harder. It looks like they are legal, but you might want to have them "at a given speed (> or < current speed)" instead of "at a given percentage of speed".