Overdrive <G22> poll: yea or nay?

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by <G22>

Direction Of Traffic – ROBOTS must proceed around the TRACK in a counter-clockwise direction. Once a ROBOT has CROSSED a LANE MARKER or FINISH LINE, it shall not break the plane of the line by moving in the clockwise direction. A PENALTY will be assigned for each infraction.

My impression is that about half the people commenting lucidly on the topic think the rule is fine as is. Others seem to believe that almost everyone disagrees with it. So I'd like to find out what the CD community really thinks.

Please do not continue the debate here. I'd appreciate it if this thread could be kept as just the poll.

[deshirider430]

I believe the rule should only be called if a robot completely enters the quadrant previous to the one it is currently in.

1. This is a hard penalty to call, if you barely touch the line after crossing the line it could induce a penalty. Also traffic builds up around the turns. If your robot has already crossed the line it can't maneuver to get to the open lane, it has to wait till the spot it is in clears up.

2. This is hard for drivers, the rumors you hear about positions 1 and 3 are true, you can't see very well on the other end of the field. Personally I can't even tell if we are playing 2 robots or three robots at the beginning of the game let alone judge where my teams robot is on the field.


If the rule was changed like this, the amount of penalty's would drop significantly and there would be less games decided on penalty's.

[DarkFlame145]

I agree that part of your bot should be able to cross the line, but not the whole bot. Personally I dont like it when penalties make or break a match, but on a better note, I dont think 145 got a line violation at FLR.

[Racer26]

I think this rule could use a tweak so as to better follow the INTENT of the rule, since thats what the GDC seems to be all about this year (in some cases even going so far as to say do what we meant, not what we said). Some way to allow small portions of the robot (ie. the corner of a steering skid steer bot) to break the plane without inducing a penalty

[vivek16]

Originally Posted by deshirider430

I believe the rule should only be called if a robot completely enters the quadrant previous to the one it is currently in.

exactly my view

-Vivek

[whytheheckme]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Please do not continue the debate here. I'd appreciate it if this thread could be kept as just the poll.

But Alan, then the thread would never get bumped

To follow up my vote, "The Rule is bad but could be fixed", I think that the intent of the rule is to
a) prevent re-scoring on the same line
b) prevent traffic flow in the opposite direction

As a driver, Positions 1 and 3 are bad ENOUGH (very terrible in fact; It literally can make or break your match), and then to get wrong-way penalties for trying to maneuver through pileups and traffic..... The intent of the rule isn't being considered. It's not like I'm driving in reverse around the track; I simply am trying to move through traffic, and if I happen to be over one of the cursed white lines, I'm screwed.

In my opinion, the rule should be written so that you cannot cross two consecutive lines in reverse order. This allows some freedom for the driver to maneuver through traffic, but doesn't allow him to go in reverse around the track to chase a ball. The disadvantage of course: it would be almost impossible to ref this.

Jacob

[Bongle]

So far, it looks like it is just a noisy minority that doesn't really like it, which makes sense. You don't post a thread to say "I am satisfied with rule G22!!"

[Al Skierkiewicz]

I think the rule is good but needs some modification. I look at the rules as being imposed constraints to allow team members to plan, design, and play under additional simulated physical constraints that real world problems will present in the future. However, there are great many areas of the field that for one reason or another, the drivers cannot see that they are in violation. How can a driver 30 feet away, looking through a two lexan panels with reflections and a multitude of vertical poles, tell that their bumper which is several inches off the floor and in bad light, has just crossed backwards over the lane marker by 1/4". (The parallax in this situation is tremendous) There is just no way that can occur. Make the rule that the whole (or the majority of) robot must cross backwards over a line to incur the penalty and then I think you have something. Even refs must be hard pressed to see that small a change accurately.

[Richard Wallace]

What Al said.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

<SNIP>
However, there are great many areas of the field that for one reason or another, the drivers cannot see that they are in violation. How can a driver 30 feet away, looking through a two lexan panels with reflections and a multitude of vertical poles, tell that their bumper which is several inches off the floor and in bad light, has just crossed backwards over the lane marker by 1/4". (The parallax in this situation is tremendous) There is just no way that can occur.
<SNIP>

Here I must disagree with you.

The rule has been in place since kickoff. The designs for the field, a week later. Teams that did not look at the field setup and where the blind spots would be are now complaining because they cannot see their robot.

It is not the GDCs fault that some teams did not take into account field design and driver viewing angle (I learned all abot that in Stack Attack) when they worked on their strategy and now, because of this failing, they want the rules to change.

All I can say is I am very happy that the GDC decided to not change the rules.

P.S. As far as viewing the robot ... have you ever considered putting your robocoach on the other side of the field and give hand signals?


JM(NS)HO

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

As far as viewing the robot ... have you ever considered putting your robocoach on the other side of the field and give hand signals?

It would be neat to see the position of the robocoach mined further for the value that it offers in this game as part of the drive team/alliance.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

P.S. As far as viewing the robot ... have you ever considered putting your robocoach on the other side of the field and give hand signals?


JM(NS)HO

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

It would be neat to see the position of the robocoach mined further for the value that it offers in this game as part of the drive team/alliance.

Remember that you have to be in the RoboCoach Zone on your side of the field. Side, not end. If you are Red, you can be in a RoboCoach Zone next to either color Alliance (drive) Zone, but you must be on the Red side of the field (same side as the Red Finish Line).

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

Remember that you have to be in the RoboCoach Zone on your side of the field. Side, not end. If you are Red, you can be in a RoboCoach Zone next to either color Alliance (drive) Zone, but you must be on the Red side of the field (same side as the Red Finish Line).

Gary,
Apologies for being unclear.
I meant that I would like to see the robocoach position continue to be looked at for its value. That was what I meant.

[johnr]

I haven't seen a field or comp in person yet so could someone tell me if all driver stations have a clear view of their down field robocoach? I was hopping that the robocoach could give hand signal to driver to take inside or outside turn.

[Craig Roys]

Originally Posted by johnr

I haven't seen a field or comp in person yet so could someone tell me if all driver stations have a clear view of their down field robocoach? I was hopping that the robocoach could give hand signal to driver to take inside or outside turn.

I have not been to a comp either, but based on the pictures I saw earlier in another <G22> thread there is a good chance that you cannot see them clearly if you are in the far left station - you would have to look through the center barrier. However, as Paul Copioli also pointed out, the coach can make use of the fact that he/she can move throughout your entire alliance zone to try to get a view of things.