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Unread 26-04-2009, 18:43
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What would you do if build were longer?

Imagine that instead of six weeks, FIRST gave us two months. Or three months. Or a year.

Now, the actual amount of time given isn't what matters though, its what you would do with it.

Would you spent more time designing or prototyping? What about building? Or debugging code? Or more driver practice?

What would you do with more time to build?

(I'm not pro longer-build-season, I'm just wondering)
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Unread 26-04-2009, 18:51
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Re: What would you do if build were longer?

It would allow us to get more advanced machining done, do prototyping on a whole different level, and get some really good driver practice.

The big thing that the longer build season would do for us is we would be able to explore more of the "wilder" ideas that come up during brainstorming that we don't think wouldn't work, but sure enough we see a similar idea working on a robot during a competition.
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Unread 27-04-2009, 11:37
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Re: What would you do if build were longer?

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Originally Posted by EricLeifermann View Post
The big thing that the longer build season would do for us is we would be able to explore more of the "wilder" ideas that come up during brainstorming that we don't think wouldn't work, but sure enough we see a similar idea working on a robot during a competition.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Every year, almost every robot design we see in competition was suggested by someone on our team at the beginning of build season. The hard part is deciding which of the wild ideas you think will work best, because you really don't have the time to test more than one or two of them.

For example, in 2007 we referred to suction devices as "audible inhalers" until seeing how some of the best robots used them effectively.
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Unread 27-04-2009, 12:16
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Re: What would you do if build were longer?

It's calld Parkinson's Law:

"Work expands to fill the time available for its completion"

As others have said, I would probably be getting divorced ... and likely also be unemployed, homeless, and in prison ...

Many already consider me "certifiable". An additional 6.5 weeks of external insanity each year is all I can handle ...
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Unread 27-04-2009, 16:28
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Re: What would you do if build were longer?

Six weeks is just about right - especially since it's the same for all teams.

If we had more time, we would only use it to test and refine whatever general design approach we had committed to earlier in the process. We probably wouldn't start any major redesign in week 6, in the hope that we would be unstoppable by week 8 or 10 or whatever.

Most teams don't know if their basic design approach (i.e: hurdler vs. thrower in 2008 or shooter vs. dumper in 2009) was on the right or wrong track until after the competitions begin. Adding time to the build season won't change that.

If you really want to mess up grades, marriages, etc., then try this: 1) Set up a Michigan-style format with at least 2 district events all around the country. 2) Have all teams play at least one event. 3) Have a 3-4 week "rebuild" season, so everybody could go back to the drawing board for another round of build season stress while they try to adopt & improve on the most effective designs. 4) Play the second half of the competition season. 5)If you are a member of Team 33, don't change a thing - just continue with business as usual.
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Unread 27-04-2009, 16:47
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Re: What would you do if build were longer?

With a longer build season, it would be interesting to see how many teams continued to panic, procrastinate, waste time, expend time that they can not account for, fail to become more organized and efficient, and give the programmers yet the same amount of time (very little) that they had in the 6 weeks build - and somehow justify that there just wasn't enough time.

If it were to go longer, I would think that sensible teams would work in shifts and have a reasonable closing time at night. (I believe I have read posts this season that address this within some teams now, born out of necessity.) Shifts would be something to look at regarding saving marriages, helping salvage/maintain grades, encouraging communication and sharing of knowledge, and developing better time management within the team.

It's an interesting topic/discussion. - -
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Last edited by JaneYoung : 27-04-2009 at 17:00. Reason: time management
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Unread 27-04-2009, 17:18
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Re: What would you do if build were longer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneYoung View Post
With a longer build season, it would be interesting to see how many teams continued to panic, procrastinate, waste time, expend time that they can not account for, fail to become more organized and efficient, and give the programmers yet the same amount of time (very little) that they had in the 6 weeks build - and somehow justify that there just wasn't enough time.
The project will always expand to fill up whatever time is available, I don't think making it longer would help anyone.

I've experienced other competitions with longer seasons, and see teams show up equally unprepared at events.
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Unread 28-04-2009, 17:37
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Re: What would you do if build were longer?

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Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
The project will always expand to fill up whatever time is available, I don't think making it longer would help anyone.

I've experienced other competitions with longer seasons, and see teams show up equally unprepared at events.
Bingo...

Think of FTC? How many teams show up to their first FTC event unprepared? Most of them have a 3 or 4 month build season and they show up to their first competition still adding mechanisms, tweaking code, etc, etc... Give people more time and they'll procrastinate even more than they do now.
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Unread 27-04-2009, 17:22
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Re: What would you do if build were longer?

I would build coffins and an alibi.
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Unread 27-04-2009, 18:01
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Re: What would you do if build were longer?

If the build season were extended by another week or more, I would cut back my involvement with the team. I might even quit FRC outright. I'm already stretching the tolerance of my day job and family obligations as it is.
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Unread 27-04-2009, 18:04
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Re: What would you do if build were longer?

I would build a second chassis and super structure, taking time to make sure it was rock solid and make all the improvements learned after making the first one. Then I would take the mechanism from the first chassis and transfer that to the second one.

Oh wait....we did that this year! There was no limit to the build season this year. The constraint this year was that the robot you fielded had to be made of anything you put in the crate, any unassembled COTS you wanted and 40lbs of custom parts you brought to the regional. We went to a week 5 regional, so we met once or twice a week after ship to finish this new chassis. The extra time was very low stress because we knew exactly what we were building and how well it would work.

Although I enjoyed the extra time allowed us to have a more reliable robot, I would rather just have the 6 weeks. It takes a bit more experience with the competition and the design process, but there are some amazing creations built in 6 weeks, I don't think we need any longer than that.
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Unread 27-04-2009, 18:36
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Re: What would you do if build were longer?

I think our robot did pretty well for build season. My only wish was having more time for programming atleast at the Regional or Atlanta to get our code working better in auto period. Since we had a camera that was suppose to track and then score in that period. In DC it worked well, and scored a few times after playing with callibrations. Atlanta, it never got well into tracking mode because of difference in lighting and the stadium seat colors. So, not quite an extension to build season, unless i were to somehow get the lighting of those to events into our lab...
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Unread 27-04-2009, 19:14
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Re: What would you do if build were longer?

I think we would finish the robot on time. Mabye...
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Unread 27-04-2009, 19:25
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Re: What would you do if build were longer?

If it they just told us it was X days longer, we'd probably go slower or do the exact same thing. If, two days before shipping, they announced it was extended another 6 weeks I think we'd jump around crying out of happiness of actually having time to test and improve(and paint more things purple)
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Unread 28-04-2009, 21:24
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Re: What would you do if build were longer?

Let me get this straight;

I LIKE BUILD SEASON AS IT IS.

If it were longer, I'd go insane. I was just wondering what people would do.
This is kinda my way of seeing what people value most during build. Some people prefer to spend more time building, while others think its all in prototyping. And in another world, kids would put their emphasis on code.

So this isn't a petition for longer build, guys and gals.
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