GM and its impact on FIRST

[595294001]

I'm sure you've all seen the stories of GM's bankruptcy and you all know how much money it has given to many clubs and to FIRST as a whole. So with Gm going under, what do you think the kickback will be on FIRST?

[Nick Lawrence]

I think General Motors realizes the values and importance of FIRST, and when it brings itself out of bankruptcy, it will continue to fund FIRST and subsequent teams. Sure, the amount of funds given may be substantially less, but every little counts, right?

-Nick

Originally Posted by Nick Lawrence

I think General Motors realizes the values and importance of FIRST, and when it brings itself out of bankruptcy, it will continue to fund FIRST and subsequent teams. Sure, the amount of funds given may be substantially less, but every little counts, right?

-Nick

GM won't bring itself out of bankruptcy.

Teams that rely on auto sponsorship may want to find companies with factories/engineering locations stateside that aren't failing, such as Subaru, and others. GM is dying, and what we're seeing is the floundering of a company trying to stay alive.

[Mr. Pockets]

As far as I know GM has been our teams primary sponsor since its inception. We've already been told that fundraising is going to have to be drastically increased if we want to stay around past next year, and I doubt that we're the only team in that position.

Keep in mind that GM did more than donate money. They also provided support through donation of tools, providing mentors, and other additional services.

[Akash Rastogi]

[partial speculation]As far as I know..And please don't quote me on this as it is not a fact yet....GM is going to be pulling out of FRC as a primary sponsor. That is just what I've heard from a reliable source.[/partial speculation]

I actually think it would be a good idea for GM to cut back on FRC teams. Yeah it will suck for GM teams, but I'd rather see that money go to keeping some jobs around. JMHO

[Jon236]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

I actually think it would be a good idea for GM to cut back on FRC teams. Yeah it will suck for GM teams, but I'd rather see that money go to keeping some jobs around. JMHO

The difference between speculation and investment in the stock market is that you invest for the long term. That is what GM has done with FRC. FIRST provides the feedstock for GM's next generation of engineers.

GM may certainly cut back the total dollars allocated to teams; our sponsor has done the same. This forces us to alter our strategy and work on alternative funding; not a bad thing. Nothing is static; our students need to learn this lesson and see how we regroup.

But the primary commitment of providing mentors to inspire students to enter STEM careers is so central to GM's future success that I cannot see them backing away from that aspect of the program.

[DonRotolo]

Also note that mentors and tool loans are not very expensive to the company. Certainly not as expensive as cash.

It would be a good idea for every team - GM sponsored or not - to cultivate some new sponsors. They don't have to give in the 5k or even 1k range - 25 sponsors at $500 each tends to be a lot more stable than 2 sponsors at $6k. Surely there are 25 companies within 15 miles of the school...

[oddjob]

Originally Posted by Jon236

The difference between speculation and investment in the stock market is that you invest for the long term. That is what GM has done with FRC. FIRST provides the feedstock for GM's next generation of engineers.

GM will need far fewer engineers now. They have profitable trucks and other large vehicles that Obama is going to obsolete with higher mpg requirements. The Malibu will survive, everything smaller is not competitive, except maybe for rebadged imports such as the Aveo. I predict GM will become a rebadging company for far east manufacturers, if they survive beyond 8 years to a new administration - assuming Obama is reelected, and poor value for $50B of taxpayer money IMO. They could have gone bankrupt 6 months ago and saved us $50B.

Chrysler will become Fiat-Lite. Fiat just came in dead last out of 28 manufacturers in a survey of new car quality in the UK. Their mediocre cars will not sell in the US, so expect more government handouts there too. Study the 1960's and later history of Austin/Morris to see what the future holds for GM and Chrysler. Poor management, costs too high, epic fail. I had relatives that worked at Austin (later British Leyland etc.) in Longbridge UK. It was a huge site. Went there a couple of weeks ago and it's a big patch of dirt now. The so called UAW "concessions" are not serious, and who in government is qualified to run a car company? I have a really bad feeling about all of this and hope I'm dead wrong. I currently own a Cadillac and two Chryslers and it looks like they will be my last.

Sad to say but any FIRST teams that are dependent on GM money, need to find a plan B. Possibly nobody yet knows if they will be able to fund FIRST but there is a very clear risk they will not.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by oddjob

GM will need far fewer engineers now. They have profitable trucks and other large vehicles that Obama is going to obsolete with higher mpg requirements. The Malibu will survive, everything smaller is not competitive, except maybe for rebadged imports such as the Aveo. I predict GM will become a rebadging company for far east manufacturers, if they survive beyond 8 years to a new administration - assuming Obama is reelected, and poor value for $50B of taxpayer money IMO. They could have gone bankrupt 6 months ago and saved us $50B.

Chrysler will become Fiat-Lite. Fiat just came in dead last out of 28 manufacturers in a survey of new car quality in the UK. Their mediocre cars will not sell in the US, so expect more government handouts there too. Study the 1960's and later history of Austin/Morris to see what the future holds for GM and Chrysler. Poor management, costs too high, epic fail. I had relatives that worked at Austin (later British Leyland etc.) in Longbridge UK. It was a huge site. Went there a couple of weeks ago and it's a big patch of dirt now. The so called UAW "concessions" are not serious, and who in government is qualified to run a car company? I have a really bad feeling about all of this and hope I'm dead wrong. I currently own a Cadillac and two Chryslers and it looks like they will be my last.

Sad to say but any FIRST teams that are dependent on GM money, need to find a plan B. Possibly nobody yet knows if they will be able to fund FIRST but there is a very clear risk they will not.

Having Chrysler and GM go bankrupt 6 months ago would have been disastrous, recall for a moment all the panic and uncertainty last fall, banks were failing, Bernie Madoff had just been arrested for the largest Ponzi scheme in the world. Imagine if on top of all the chaos two of the largest companies in the country announced that they were going into Chapter 11. Now we are not much better off but people perceive we are slightly more stable, Obama has a plan (like it or not) Part of leading is limiting panic, if in the course of 3 months it is announced that not only are major banks failing, fraud on a global scale, AND 2 massive employers are going bankrupt people will panic. IF GM has to die I would much rather it die a controlled death than a massive, painful one.

Your other points only make me think [citation needed] What concessions? Who said anyone currently in the government will run the companies? Not saying you are wrong but I would like some more facts because you make some very interesting points.

[Travis Hoffman]

Well on a day like today, this is unexpected:

http://delphi.com/news/pressReleases/pr_2009_06_01_002/

Living in a community where Delphi and GM are two of the the largest employers, this is certainly an unusual day.

[Chris is me]

I'm personally wondering what's going to happen to the teams sponsored almost entirely by GM. They're legendary FIRST teams... who's going to pick up the tab? Obviously I don't know their books or how much money they make doing various things (other than T3's legendary rennisance faire fund drive), but those aren't teams anyone wants to lose.

[Karthik]

Here's a link to today's GM press release dealing with the bankruptcy proceedings.

GM announces agreement with US Treasury and Canada Governments

For anyone who's interested in actually discussing the issue, it's important that you read the contents of this release to get an idea of what's actually happening.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

...but those aren't teams anyone wants to lose.

Does anyone ever really *WANT* to lose any FRC team? In this discussion, I think we should be careful not to accidentally tread upon the ashes or smoldering embers of any struggling or previously-folded teams who might not be of the same level of recognition as some the more widely-known GM teams. It is always disappointing when teams lose any financial and/or human support. Many teams have faced the same or worse challenges and have managed to adjust, quietly.

These GM teams are filled with a bunch of skilled, creative, intelligent people who truly care about FIRST. I expect most of their teams will find ways to adapt to any changes that are thrown at them and survive in some form. Some have most likely been proactive enough to have already enacted plans to diversify their mentor and sponsorship bases prior to this bankruptcy announcement.

With facilities closing, merging, idling, etc., it will be difficult for every FRC team under the GM umbrella to survive. Delphi has been playing the bankruptcy game for four years now. A few of our teams have folded during that time. Funding levels for most team have been reduced (and truthfully, they were in decline for many years prior to our bankruptcy in 2005). Many, many key mentors have also been displaced from their jobs, making it especially tough for those affected teams to adapt. BUT, it is important to note, the majority HAVE survived. Teams have accepted the reasoning behind the reduced funding and have adapted without complaint. Delphi thankfully continues to provide some level of support to its teams and is still supportive of its employees and their volunteer efforts.

It would be nice to think that GM will follow a similar path as Delphi here, but it remains to be seen how GM (or the government) will address its FIRST team sponsorships. Regardless of their decisions, it is logical to believe that GM teams will face many challenges in the coming months similar to those which Delphi teams have been facing. If GM elects to cut the majority of funding to teams, it is possible that a few may no longer be able to sustain operations as a result. Those who have depended upon a single large funding and/or mentorship source and have made no plans to diversify prior to now will be especially under a lot of pressure to reinvent their operations in a short amount of time. It will be unfortunate if some teams fail to adapt, but the FIRST community must be ready to accept the real chance this might occur, and it might begin to talk about how it can best be proactive in helping with the "transformation plan" of any and all teams who may be about to enter such unusual, unfamilar, and difficult situations.

[kramarczyk]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pockets

Keep in mind that GM did more than donate money. They also provided support through donation of tools, providing mentors, and other additional services.

I have not seen any press releases stating that Tom Stephens has given up his seat on FIRST Board of Directors and I reflect on Tom's comments that Dean brought up during the closing cerimonies in April...
<paraphase>we have to do more of this, and faster</paraphrase>.

With Tom as a Vice-Chairman at GM and FIRST as one of GM's educational partnering organizations, I'm confident that GM's support of FIRST will continue. How it manifests itself may change, as many things are going to at GM, but I expect that the support will be there. I am a second generation GM employee and have a number of things 'at risk' in this situation, but I am certain that we will continue to see a FIRST/GM relationship as long as Tom is still in the picture.

[Andy Baker]

Originally Posted by 595294001

I'm sure you've all seen the stories of GM's bankruptcy and you all know how much money it has given to many clubs and to FIRST as a whole. So with Gm going under, what do you think the kickback will be on FIRST?

Hopefully, GM won't "go under". If they go into Chapter 11 bankruptcy, that means that they will reorganize. This is currently what Delphi is still doing (since 2005) and what Chrysler is doing.

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

GM won't bring itself out of bankruptcy.

Teams that rely on auto sponsorship may want to find companies with factories/engineering locations stateside that aren't failing, such as Subaru, and others. GM is dying, and what we're seeing is the floundering of a company trying to stay alive.

I believe that Craig is very wrong, and GM will emerge from a re-organization as a much smaller company. There will be many changes along the way, making GM a different entity within 5 years.

Here's another way to look at this, from a FIRST perspective:

If any of us are in the market for a new or previously-owned vehicle, why don't we go out and purchase a car that is made by one of the companies who have supported FIRST programs for many years?

Let's see... Chrysler, GM, Ford... they have supported FIRST. Maybe we should support them, eh? I don't see Subaru, Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, or other non-US-based auto companies being major sponsors of FIRST events and foundations. In this tight economic times, I suggest we support the companies who are supporting what we are passionate about, instead of piling on and giving up on them.

Andy B.