FRC 2010 Registration fees reduced

[rsisk]

Check out Bill's Blog entry from this morning. New fee structure for the 2010 games:

http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2009/08/hot-news.html


Wednesday, August 5, 2009
Hot News

Good Morning Teams,

I am very excited to announce that, thanks to cost cutting, the reuse of key items in the control system, a generous donation from Dean Kamen and careful planning on the part of everyone involved with FRC, the 2010 registration fee will be REDUCED this year to $5000 for Veteran teams and $5500 for Rookie teams.

Here’s how it works. Veteran teams will receive a kit of parts and reuse some of the elements from the 2009 control system. Rookie teams will receive a kit of parts containing everything in a Veteran kit of parts plus the reusable elements Veteran teams already have on hand. The official cost to Rookie teams will be $6500; however, Dean Kamen has generously offered to make a $1000 donation to FIRST for each Rookie team joining in 2010. That money will be applied to the Rookie team’s registration fee reducing the real cost to the team to $5500.

All kits of parts will include a Classmate PC for use in the driver’s station and teams will have the option to purchase additional reusable components after kickoff.

The registration fee for teams to attend additional FRC events and the FIRST Championship will remain the same as last year.

157 days until the 2010 Kickoff
See you there!
Posted by Bill at 10:10 AM

[Francis-134]

Hmm this could be interesting. Certianly a step in the right direction.

Info on the classmate PC can be found here

[Schnabel]

Sweet action, here's what a Classmate PC looks like. This should be interesting if it is the Drivers Station, but from what I understand of reading this, it'll be used with the drivers station.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Schnabel

Sweet action, here's what a Classmate PC looks like. This should be interesting if it is the Drivers Station, but from what I understand of reading this, it'll be used with the drivers station.

That's a first gen Classmate, they're up to the third generation now. Wonder which one we will get.

Classmate website

[The Lucas]

Originally Posted by IndySam

That's a first gen Classmate, they're up to the third generation now. Wonder which one we will get.

I hope we get the convertible (tablet) one. Does anyone know cost difference?

Last year, I really wanted to use video feedback and touch buttons for the operator to control the secondary functions of the robot, but that functionality was not really open. With a tablet pc as the DS this should be much easier to do.

[Alan Anderson]

$1500 in "reuseable components"? That's pretty close to the non-discounted price of the FRC cRIO. I wonder what else we'll be expected to salvage from the 2009 robot.

[rsisk]

I don't remember, are the sidecars going to be in the KOP for 2010, or are they considered reusable components?

That might be part of the $1500.

Also, I think NI subsidized the cRIO last year, maybe that subsidy is not available this year.

[Jared Russell]

Definitely a step in the right direction. Kudos to FIRST for listening.

[artdutra04]

This is great news for the teams which are looking to reuse their control system components from year to year. For the teams looking to keep older robots intact and operational, here's the math:

If the new Classmate PC is replacing the driver station, and if teams are looking to basically swap their CRIOs but otherwise keep the rest of the control system intact on older robots, then a PD Board ($189), Sidecar ($82), Analog & Solenoid Boards ($24 each), and WGA ($72) come out to $391, with a net savings of $609. (I didn't include the Linksys Router, since that is not needed for competitions).

But if "reusing the control system" also includes the main breaker ($26), 1 Victor ($115), 4 Jaguars (4x $73), 2 Joysticks (2x $20) and Ethernet Camera ($188), this totals out at $661, plus the $391 from above, comes out to $1052, a net increase of $52. This is basically every control system component from the 2009 KoP minus the cRIO.

Not too bad, and certainly a lot better than buying another control system on top of a $6000 registration.

Originally Posted by http://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-2823

NI and FIRST have recently finalized the pricing for backup or extra cRIO systems and are pleased to be able to announce the prices. Each year every team will be allowed to purchase one entire kit (controller and modules) for $750.00. Any extras beyond that will be NI's standard academic price which is $1,491.05. Each of the modules individually will follow the academic pricing as well and are between $150 and $175 each.

If swapping a cRIO is too difficult, then the price of one additional cRIO + modules per year is $750, which means a net increase in costs of $802. This means if you want to reuse your entire control system, your costs could be as low as $5000, but if you want to have a practice robot or keep an older robot operational, your price will be up to $6802. This is a LOT better than the 2009 season, where purchasing a second control system for a practice robot cost $2000+ on top of the $6000 registration.

Either way, this is a better than what it was during this season.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

If swapping a cRIO is too difficult, then the price of one additional cRIO + modules per year is $750, which means a net increase in costs of $802. This means if you want to reuse your entire control system, your costs could be as low as $5000, but if you want to have a practice robot or keep an older robot operational, your price will be up to $6802. This is a LOT better than the 2009 season, where purchasing a second control system for a practice robot cost $2000+ on top of the $6000 registration.

Either way, this is a better than what it was during this season.

Art,
I'm not quite understanding this.
Isn't the 2009 season better as your comparison is for 2 control systems vs. 1? For 6802, its just 1 control system vs 6000 in 2009.

The economy and the cost of materials dont lie. It will cost everyone more to do the status quo as in the past. Under the old IFI system, you could have easily done the same, without the official FIRST memo.......IF you wanted two robots (1 practice and 1 competition version).

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by waialua359

Art,
I'm not quite understanding this.
Isn't the 2009 season better as your comparison is for 2 control systems vs. 1? For 6802, its just 1 control system vs 6000 in 2009.

Maybe I should have clarified it as 2010 being cheaper than expected. We were expecting to have to buy another control system for the 2010 competition robot on top of the $6000 registration fee. But last season we had to spend $2200 on top of the $6000 to purchase an additional system for a practice robot, whereas this year it'll cost $802 on top of the [originally expected] $6000 for another control system (which would allow us to keep 2009 operational, along with both practice and competition robots for 2010).

Although absolute wise, yes, it is more expensive this year, as it'll cost $6802 to get everything that was in the 2009 KoP for $6000. However it was hinted at quite often that we'd only be getting a single control system, so an increase in price was to be expected if you wanted new control systems.

Originally Posted by waialua359

The economy and the cost of materials dont lie. It will cost everyone more to do the status quo as in the past. Under the old IFI system, you could have easily done the same, without the official FIRST memo.......IF you wanted two robots (1 practice and 1 competition version).

Don't get me wrong, I kind of prefer the inexpensive nature of the IFI control system over the expensive NI control system. Yes, we do have a lot more cool features on the NI system, but I think there could have been better specs per price ratio from other systems, like the Vex Qwerk (between 1/2 and 1/4 of the specs of the NI system for 1/10 the price, while still being a vast improvement over the previous IFI controllers).

[purduephotog]

Greetings FRC Teams:



FIRST® announces pricing for upcoming 2010 FRC season



Lower cost for FRC Veteran teams due to 2009 kit component recycle; and
FIRST Founder, Dean Kamen, provides $1,000.00 grant to each new FRC Rookie team to be used towards the 2010 registration fee.


Reaffirming its commitment to bring robotics to all young people to increase their interest in science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) careers, FIRST®, the leader in after school robotics competitions for K-12, today announced a price reduction of $1,000.00 for Veteran teams in its high-school program, the FIRST Robotics Competition (FRC). This represents a 17 percent reduction in the initial registration cost for the upcoming 2010 season for Veteran teams compared to last year.



The new FRC prices are effective immediately.



In 2009 FIRST created a technology roadmap for FRC which included the use of certain technically advanced parts from one year to the next. In 2010, the organization is able to deliver on this technology roadmap promise by reducing the cost of Veteran team registration fees to a level that represents the re-use of certain Kit of Parts (KoP) components while delivering new components including an upgraded Driver’s Station with a classmate PC.



With this price reduction -- a fee rollback equal to the 2000-2004 season’s’ pricing-- the organization has also made significant strides in cost controls for the new season which allows FIRST to pass cost reductions on to the Veteran teams.



Highlights of the new fee structure include:



· The registration fee for FIRST Robotics Competition (FRC) Veteran teams will be $5000.00 for the 2010 season. This represents a reduction of $1000.00 from the price during each of the past five seasons, and is due in large part to the design and reuse of the new control system introduced this past year;



· The FRC registration fee for Rookie teams will be increased to $6500.00. This represents the cost differential of $1,500.00 for key items from the 2009 KoP – including the cRio - which all Rookie teams will receive;



· All FRC Rookie teams will receive a $1,000.00 grant for the 2010 season. This grant is to be applied to the overall registration fee, so that the effective cost for Rookie teams is $5500.00, a $500.00 decrease from the actual 2009 season price of $6,000.00 which had applied to all FRC teams at that time;



· All Veteran FRC teams are able to reuse several key components from last year’s Kit of Parts, including the cRio control system developed by National Instruments (NI) and other specific control system components, thus enabling FIRST to reduce the cost for participation in the upcoming season for Veteran teams; and



· All FRC teams registered for the 2010 season will receive a new Kit of Parts with hundreds of components including a new classmate PC. Each FRC team will also have the ability to purchase additional “re-usable” components from the 2009 KoP if they wish. Information on how and where to purchase additional parts will be provided to teams in the near future.





In these difficult times, FIRST is foremost dedicated to its mission to expose students to hands-on science, engineering and technology. FIRST Founder, Dean Kamen’s continued commitment to this mission is evidenced again this year with a donation of grant monies to assist FRC Rookie Teams with the registration fee. Mr. Kamen will make the $1000.00 donation to FIRST for each new Rookie team that joins the FRC program this season.



Prices for the current season for all other FIRST robotics programs will remain the same as last year and pricing for additional FIRST FRC “plays” and the FIRST Championship remain the same as last year.



Initial Event Registration opens on October 1, 2009.

[DonRotolo]

Some teams - those who got a second system last year - will benefit, as will rookie teams (this year at least). Teams with one cRio who want a second one won't benefit, but are not terribly hurt, either. That's not a majority of teams - greatest good for greatest number.

Assuming you know the financials of the situation, what would you do differently?

------

Different challenge: Let's recruit enough rookie teams so Dean has to part with a cool million - I honestly think he'd be thrilled!

[Chris is me]

Has FIRST come out and said your second cRIO is not discounted this year? Because if it is, you have a net savings of $250, assuming nothing else is cut from the kit. No problem with that in my opinion.

[JoeyTNT280]

A laptop PC as the driverstation. I hope this isn't the Ds but just a screen. It could quite possibly the worst idea I've heard in a long time. If theres anything wrong with the laptop or the Program people could be seriously injured. Making mistakes pretty much isn't an option. I know you could make the argument that that could happen with every driver station but not like this, before the switch killed communications by just cutting the signal, if the Dongle Enable/Disable is a USB and the USB port isn't working and without any knowledge of such there could be injuries.