Rule question (G29 and G27)

[Radical Pi]

Looking at the rules, G29 and G27 seem to have a possible conflict. If G27 takes effect (E-Stop blocks further penalties), does that override G29 (1 robot on opponent territory)? G27 robots can't take penalties, so would that mean they don't count as a robot in the opponent's zone?

I'm asking here since the FIRST forums don't have the 2010 section up yet

[EricH]

If a robot is E-stopped, then it can't take any more penalties than it already has.

However, you do raise a valid point: if an E-stopped robot is in the opponent's zone, can another robot of the same alliance be in that zone without penalty?

I think not. If the intent is to ensure that one goal is always open, it's easy to have one robot go out there, E-stop in front of one goal, and then have another robot block the other, unless the penalties apply.

But, I don't have a definitive answer. Nobody here does (unless the Manual does). You'll have to wait for Q&A to open up, which should be later this week.

[Mike dennis]

I would think that penalties count because the second robot to enter the far zone is being pentalized. right?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Mike dennis

I would think that penalties count because the second robot to enter the far zone is being pentalized. right?

But if it's E-stopped, it can't be penalized.

I would assume that if an E-stopped robot fell into it's opponent's zone while a partner was there, the partner would need to get its *wheels* out of there in a hurry to avoid getting penalized. I can "easily" block both goals with one working robot that can push and one E-stopped one, leaving the door open for blocking both goals and not getting any penalties, if <G29> isn't applied to the running robot.

[Jimmy K]

It depends on which of the two robots are penalized if there are two robots in the opponents zone. If only the first or only the second robot to enter the zone gets penalized, then the robot that would incur the penalty could be E-Stopped. But if both robots, or the alliance is given the penalty, then it doesn't matter which robot is E-Stopped.

[Matthew2c4u]

This brings up the intresting point of what if there both estoped? blue team cant score and the bots cant take penaltys.
Remember though, preventing scoring doesnt help anyone in this game, seeding rating is all based on the winners score so winning a low scoring game doesnt help you.
I think also you would get a red card if you didnt pull the estop off fast enough.
Once again, possible finals strat, definatly not the way to play for seeding points in qualifying rounds.

[GaryVoshol]

<G27> excuses a robot from further penalties.

It appears <G29> is a single penalty. So once it's assessed, that's it. No more penalties, so there's no further penalties under <G27> to excuse. Except <G29> has more to it: "plus a RED CARD if effort to remedy is not immediate." If you E-stop, you have removed all possible remedies. Do you want to risk a red card for this strategy?

[shocker4256]

Originally Posted by EricH

But if it's E-stopped, it can't be penalized.

I would assume that if an E-stopped robot fell into it's opponent's zone while a partner was there, the partner would need to get its *wheels* out of there in a hurry to avoid getting penalized. I can "easily" block both goals with one working robot that can push and one E-stopped one, leaving the door open for blocking both goals and not getting any penalties, if <G29> isn't applied to the running robot.

Exactly. You could easily take one robot go park it in front of a goal E-Stop. Drive another robot and block the other goal with a non e-stopped robot. Of course this would kill your Coopertition Bonus.

[daltore]

I think this is one of those Gracious Professionalism strategies if you're talking about using it as a strategy. If you have a robot in the defense zone that gets knocked over, and there's no hope for recovery so it gets E-stopped, I would guess that any other robot on your alliance to enter that zone would get a penalty. Even if that is not true, it's just not cool to try to pull something like that on purpose. The E-stop is an EMERGENCY stop, and shouldn't be used as part of a strategy.

It is an interesting point though, I'll give you that...